If telling yourself that we’re all doomed no matter what and all resistance is futile makes you happy, go for it.
I choose to live in the real world.
Where the only thing made up is the ‘arguments’ of other Dopers?
Hm.
And now we have the opposite. While the principal goal of PNAC was to advance American interests through a policy of global hegemony, Trump and Project 2025 are essentially the opposite. He doesn’t understand or care what happens in the rest of the world outside the USA. Ukraine will probably be abandoned to fend for itself. Project 2025 instead seeks to turn the evil inward, enacting malignant domestic policies that will directly affect Americans by (for instance) undermining reproductive rights, abolishing LGBTQ civil rights, further tax cuts for the super-wealthy, and increasing the national debt and inflation rate, among other things.
Hey, @wolfpup what are Canadians saying about people trying to flock there?
If you mean undocumented immigrants, I saw on CBC news that border security was being beefed up in the expectation that undocumented immigrants, justifiably scared of a Trump crackdown, will be trying to flee to Canada.
If you mean ordinary Americans, I don’t anticipate any change in policy, but Canada has a points system that grants more favourable immigration status to educated and skilled workers. I’m sure that many Canadians, like me, would welcome our American friends escaping fascism.
I still find this old story of an American couple fleeing the first Trump administration heartwarming: 
Because our federal government and legal system and bureaucracy are small-c conservative to the point of impenetrability. Everything moves at a glacial pace and meaningful change cannot be achieved within a single presidential term. Obama tried and he had a more powerful Congressional majority than Trump has ever had, and he just barely managed to pass the most milquetoast watered-down attempt at healthcare reform that was possible and it took until neadly the end of his second term to take full effect. The New Deal would be flat-out impossible in today’s environment. If the interstate highway system didn’t already exist, trying to build it now would not happen in this century.
Just trying to mass-fire civil servants and replace them with loyalists, which is essential to making the rest of their pie-in-the-sky ideas remotely possible, will likely be tied up between courts and labor boards for the rest of the decade, especially when you consider that most of those people have long-term contracts and union representation. Add to that the fact that most of his ideas (like mass deportation) would be VERY expensive, which is incompatible with his plan to cut taxes and restrict imports, that the manpower involved would almost certainly require a draft which would cause mass unrest, and that his ideas for federal dictates on how states should run their business flat out contradict his other plans to dismantle entire Cabinet offices, and it becomes clear that he can’t realistically do most of what he says he will.
I think we need to calm down.
A majority of our fellow Americans voted him in, and only a small fraction of them are full-on magats. Most are folks we work and socialize with. They are good people with political views that we cannot grasp. They are not all ku kluckers or Kristofascists. They won’t go along with witch burnings, concentration camps, or jailing liberals on sight. tRump and his immediate circle are contemptible trash, and they will cause harm. But we will recover.
71 million out of 330 million is not a majority.
That is the total population and not all of them can vote (e.g. people under 18).
There are about 160.5 million registered voters in the US.
71 million is obviously less than half that but, of course, not all registered voters actually vote.
At the end of the day it is the majority of people who actually vote (with EC complications).
The point is that maga is by no means a majority in this country.
Current popular vote totals:
- Trump: 74.53 million (50.5%)
- Harris: 70.77 million (47.9%)
330 million / 2 = 165 million
74.53 million < 165 million
Trump voters are not a majority of Americans.
You do not know that. We know the majority of people who voted voted for Trump.
You do not know how the rest feel because they did not register a vote.
And, I am not really sure asking a 5-year-old is meaningful for this (they’d be a part of your 330 million).
I mentioned something that relates to this a bit upthread:
I do, in fact, know that people who voted for Trump are not the majority of Americans, because 74 million people voted for Trump and that is less than half the number of Americans that exist.
You do NOT know that because you have no measure of what the people who did not vote think/believe. Most of them cannot even vote to register their opinion and, as I said, I am not sure the opinion of a child even counts.
You are just guessing.
It’s a good thing that that isn’t what I said, then. I’d have serious egg on my face if I spent several consecutive posts arguing against a claim nobody made.
It’s difficult. I started cleaning up junk in my back basement. Books to sell, papers to dispose. Not looking at options yet, but when Trump is sworn in, I may leave my current state.
Moderating:
Both, please stop this petty back-and-forth that has essentially nothing to do with the topic at hand. It adds nothing of value to the discussion.
They almost overturned an election in 2020. What makes you think they’ll be ineffective with their aims in the future?
I think the attacks on various groups will be done over a long period of time, with incremental crackdown on rights. You mention illegal immigrants and lgbtq people. I don’t think it will end with them. It will extend to political enemies and the media. Legal immigrants will also be rounded up, as they will be lumped in with illegals (like the Haitians who “eat dogs and cats”). Women have already lost reproductive rights, and attacks on those rights will continue. Gradually, our rights will be eroded. The press will be attacked. Military will be sent to large cities to crack down on some imaginary crime wave (unless it’s a real crime wave, like the last one that happened under Trump’s watch). Businesses will be attacked if they don’t bow down to Trump. What do you think will happen if a Democrat wins the POTUS election in 2028? You know damn well, Trump and his minions will make sure they never take office.
I thought about moving to a blue state. But being in a blue state won’t protect you from Trump forever.
When your entire political movement is built on a pack of lies - which describes MAGA to a tee - then in order to maintain power, you have to incrementally get rid of the opposition, either literally or turn them into compliant little lambs. That’s the only way a movement like MAGA can survive. Eventually, even Trump voters will be targeted. With fascist movements, no one is safe forever. You all eventually have to succumb.
I don’t think all of the possible bad outcomes will occur in the next 4 years. But if MAGA stays in power long enough, America will be unrecognizable in a decade…