Back at ya. I don’t dig being kept waiting any more than the next guy, but when you get to be a crank on the subject (a position I suspect the OP is at least considering), you make it All About You - just as surely as the passive-aggressive late-arriver does.
As for all this talk of common decency, it’s interesting how belligerent people can get when supposedly arguing for it.
Now this really is bs (substitute ‘spurious’ if you think calling bs is ‘belligerent’).
You could say this about anything:
“You bastard, you stole my money!”
“By being so cranky you make this All About You”
“You bastard, you burned down my house!”
“By being so cranky you make this All About You”
“You bastard, you knifed me in the stomach!”
“By being so cranky you make this All About You”
Etc
If we are talking about people who are just upset that you are late, then I agree. I specifically worded my previous post in the way that I did, because there’s nothing wrong with getting upset because someone is chronically late. I just don’t like people jumping from that to “You are a horrible person.”
But, here’s the thing. People who judge you because of that one thing are being prejudiced against you. They are therefore hurting you. It is a natural consequence that someone you are hurting will not acquiesce to your demands.
And, no, I’m not saying I’m morally superior: I have the opposite problem of the OP, as my first post shows: I sometimes assume everyone who has a problem with me being late is prejudiced against me. And that is just as bad.
Anecdote:
[spoiler]Heck, I remember my choir teacher actually explaining to me that I was hurting the choir by not warming up with them, and thus throwing off the balance. He was nice and had a valid point, so I tried to be on time more often.
It was hard, since I had had to schedule one of my required classes right before it, which was pretty far away from the Music building, and the cafeteria was only open during that class and choir, so I had to get my lunch and eat while making the long walk to class (as I have to eat lunch for my medicine), but I eventually got that down to 10 minutes, which was all the time I had between classes.
If someone had judged me as an inferior person because of that situation, you’d better bet I’d have been pissed at them.[/spoiler]
Yeah, that’s exactly the type of smug uptight condescending prig attitude I was talking about. I damned well better be paid to put up with, because I sure won’t voluntarily choose someone like that as a friend. Nice impersonation.
I agree I am smug about being on time and being concerned about others feelings.
That’s because I am concerned about being on time and how my actions impact on others.
See how that works?
The reason why all of those work is because you’ve actually hurt the person in a significant manner, and all involve intent to hurt you.
The person who is late rarely has anything against you, and most of the time does not actually hurt you–you could continue on without them. The only reason it hurts is because you attach an emotional investment with being on time, and choose not to continue on without them.
You can be annoyed, but that isn’t all that most people seem to do: even you have decided to judge these people as being selfish because they don’t prioritize being on time in the way you do. As long as they are still accomplishing everything they need to accomplish, it doesn’t mean anything.
I’m sure you have some annoying habits that would be really difficult for you to fix, and so you choose not to. Are you also selfish, or, worse a narcissist?
FYI: Narcissists tend to be perfectionists, and thus are on time for everything. They have to be, so they can feel superior and look down at others, which makes them feel better about themselves. The term is not just a general insult for people you think are selfish.
If you are repeatedly inconsiderate to someone (ie late without a good excuse) then it naturally raises the question “why?” Is it because you are sadistic? (Unlikely). Is it because you are narcissistic? (Probably.) Is it because you are lazy? (see: “narcissistic”). Is it because you have poor organizational skills? (see: “narcissistic”).
Narcissism is a very good example of a correct application of prejudice. In fact it is probably a decent prototype for the very idea of prejudice. It is a predictive and insightful model of behavior. No one should be faulted for applying it where appropriate. It may very well be that calling someone narcissistic will likely only raise their defenses and not help them become more self-aware. But that doesn’t make such an accusation untrue. Sometimes the truth is “hurtful”. I’m sorry about that… but that’s the way it is.
That fact is completely irrelevant. Here is an example where there is no intent to hurt you:
“You bastard, you drank all of my OJ and all of my milk and cereal and didn’t replace it, you used my thesis as scratch paper, and you took my clothes out of the drier and left them soggy on the floor while you dried your own!”
“By being so cranky you make this All About You”
No, it hurts you because it wastes your time. It’s not just an emotional investment – it is actually wasted time. It also can be boring.
This makes no sense. They are not simply prioritizing time “differently”, they are prioritizing time “to their benefit” and “at the expense of others.” And what do you mean “as long as they are still accomplishing everything they need to accomplish?” They are doing so “at others’ expense,” who may miss their own appointments and accomplish less because of it.
You’re coming up with all these ridiculous conclusions now.
Erm, did you actually have a room mate who did all that? I’m gonna give you a hint from my years of living with other people:
If someone did all that, there was probably some intent to hurt you. Just sayin.
And no, being five or ten minutes late is not equivalent to sabotaging someone’s academic work, consuming all of their foodstuffs, and dumping their clothing on the floor. You should probably get a better room mate.
No, actually you aren’t concerned about others feelings or how your actions impact others. If you were, you would have stopped and thought about how your attitude is just as harmful to others as their lateness is to you.
If the posts in this thread are any judge, an excessive obsession on timeliness is based on an attitude of ‘How dare anyone make ME wait, don’t they realize how important I am?’ which is just as selfish as anything being claimed about those that are late.
This is still irrelevant. Do you disagree that someone can hurt you without meaning to? Supposing, for example, because they are so preoccupied with themselves that they do not realize it?
And yes, one can have a roommate who is like that who does not have intent to harm. I dramatized it a bit, but yes, it happens. In this case he was simply oblivious, probably from growing up sheltered and affluent where he always got what he wanted, never having to consider other people. Oblivious, narcissistic habits, partly because no one called him out on it.
This captures it perfectly.
Consistently late people who see it as no problem and who are unwilling to do anything about it are disorganised, selfish and untrustworthy. I think less of them as a person and I feel totally justified in doing so.
I think it is laughable that some people are trying to spin it any other way.
There is this thing called empathy. It means that you are concerned about how others feel. If I were running late in driving someone to the airport and they might miss a flight, guess what? I will put myself in their shoes, realise how terrible they will feel and use that as a spur to do better and fulfill my promise. It is a fairly common human emotion. (I would have said necessary emotion but I am beginning to doubt it)
And how does my expectation of honesty harm you?
You really are protesting too much. Your posts are as clear indication of narcissism as can be.
All I ask is that someone is honest with me. Commit to a time that I can trust and all other arrangements will go swimmingly. If I can’t trust you and your lateness messes up arrangements and makes others unhappy does that not bother you at all?
Mothers of babies get a pass for being late, they have the hardest job out there to my way of thinking.
But for everyone else, you piss me off. I ask my friend to dinner and we agree on 6pm. At 7 pm he calls me to say he’s “on the way.” he lives 45 minutes from me. We get to the restaraunt and eat at 8:30 pm. 2 and a half fucking hours from when we agreed. i was tired and hungry and I couldn’t stay up as late as he wanted. Sorry pal, you should have been on time.
I find this incomprehensible. And I used to be perpeptually tardy myself. If I was only 15 late for work I was “on time”. At some point my inner Felix Unger came out and I started to leave early and never be late.
I always think backwards. If I have to be at a meeting at 6 pm. and bring a snack I think “OK, it takes 20 minutes to drive there, call it 5:30 pm, it takes 30 minutes to cook my snack, call it 5:00 pm. Then I want to change my clothes and put on my galoshes, so I’ll start all that at 4:15 to be safe.”
I am never late and everyone is happy.
And this is the bit I have real trouble with, You have it totally arse-about-face.
I don’t think I am important, I don’t think my time has importance to anyone other than me.
I do think that courtesy and good manners are very important. Being late without good reason is simply rude.
It doesn’t matter what you think the person waiting is saying. You have explicitly shown by being late that you think you are more important than the other person. Simply not good manners.
Feel free to call me uptight if it helps you rationalise what you know to be unacceptable behaviour on your part.
Absolutely, by their very nature babies are unpredictable elements and so no reasonable person would think any less of you in those circumstance. when you arrange things with parents of youngsters you should always factor in some “poo room”
Yeah, but when has logic, reason and concern for others ever achieved anything?
Then why are you upset if, in your interpretation of events, others agree with you?
And yet, tardiness is often acceptable behavior. I posted that I come in “late” to work every single day and it’s accepted by the only person who matters. In turn, I accept my wife being her usual half an hour late. Other posters have pointed out that they accept tardiness in others in this circumstance or that-- their idea of “a good excuse” varies, too. Still others have pointed out that the norm for what’s tardy varies from place to place. (Hey, Utah runs 15 minutes late, who would’ve thought.) So maybe you’re uptight on the subject or you live in an area where timeliness is important. Maybe you’re a schoolteacher or work security, I dunno. The fact is that tardiness isn’t always unacceptable and isn’t always considered bad manners.
I missed the conclusions you referred to. The post you replied to is mostly questions.
I don’t think anyone here disagrees that tardiness can be acceptable, depending on the circumstances. Novelty Bobble even gave a specific example of that in the post you replied to.
Nor do I think anyone here is disagreeing that the degree to which tardiness is acceptable is culture-dependent. This has already been addressed.