It sure does, thank you.
Rest assured, I never felt you were accusing me of hidden agendas, or anything else. The past is the past. I think we’re all agreed on the value of anecdotal evidence, even if we might interpret it differently.
It’s very healthy - though sometimes quite mortifying (when you don’t perform well) - to have to stand up for your views in public, especially in writing.
Understood. For me, it’s less of an academic (or, hopefully, prurient) interest, and more of a “healthy obsession”. What I mean by that is that I have as long as I can remember wanted to understand male homosexuality. (I merely fantasise about the female kind!) My wife’s convinced I’m a closet gay!!
No, but there is some suggestion that (as already mentioned) women’s sexuality is more fluid than men’s…or possibly that women have a harder time understanding their own sexuality, or are under greater social pressure to enter into heterosexual relationships. It’s a complicated topic on which there is little reliable data.
Anedotally, it seems that most gay men are to some extent “out” by their early 20s, and if they aren’t it’s because they’re consciously choosing to hide their orientation. On the other hand, it’s not unusual for a lesbian to come out in her 30s or beyond. Many of these women say that they weren’t so much in the closet as simply clueless. At the same time, the “lesbian until graduation” phenomenon has been widely observed on college campuses without any similarly visible male counterpart.
The reasons for this are anyone’s guess. Heck, it’s not even clear what is really going on – there aren’t hard numbers on these things. I’ll float one hypothesis, though. A bisexual woman who is personally inclined towards monogamy may seem, to both herself and outsiders, to flip-flop between “straight” and “gay”.
As best as I can tell, it’s fairly common. The thriving online “slash” community has already been discussed, and most of that involves male/male stories written by and for straight women. I attended a women’s college, and many of my straight friends there were really into reading slash stories online. And there was a DVD of Velvet Goldmine that got passed around in the dorm an awful lot.
I’m sure people fantasize about all kinds of things, but I’m not sure I follow your question. Is the first part asking if homosexuals ever fantasize about attractive same-sex people who are straight in real life? Of course, although in the fantasy they’d almost always prove to be gay! I mean, it would be a pretty lousy fantasy for a gay man if Brad Pitt said “Sorry buddy, I don’t swing that way” and went home to Jennifer.
I follow the question, so if I may be so bold as to rephrase it:
Do homosexuals fantasize about sex with heterosexuals AND, if so, in those fantasies do they fantasize about that sex being between two people of the same sex, or do they take the role of the"opposite" sex.
In other words, if you’re a gay guy fantasizing about Brad Pitt, are you female in the fantasy?
Uhhhhhh… two and three-quarters.
No. At least, I’m certainly not, and I think the same is true of nearly all gay guys, from what I can tell.
That is classic. Most self-loathing gay fantasy ever – “Sorry, dude, let’s just be friends.”
From what I’ve seen and heard (you know, from friends who actually lower themselves to look at porn and such things), the whole “first time for a straight guy” is a common theme, but the idea is that the gay guy in question is so incredibly hot that the straight guy is overwhelmed with curiosity and just can’t help but have gay sex.
There are plenty of straight guys I think are hot, but the idea of actually doing it with someone “against his orientation” is pretty skeevy to me. So my fantasy (assuming that I ever did indulge in such things) would be about a gay or bi man who just happens to look an awful lot like person X.
To each his own, of course, but for me: definitely not. No doubt this is going to get me called misogynistic, but throwing a woman into the mix would be a real cold shower for me.
It reminds me of the whole “are you a top or a bottom?” question (which I think is incredibly rude and personal anyway). The worst way I’ve ever seen it worded was “When you have sex, which one of you is the woman?” Well neither, obviously. That’s pretty much the whole point.
So when straight guys fantasize about lesbian sex, do they see themselves as one of the women? I always assumed that they fantasized themselves as a voyeur or as a third participant.
And another question I get to ask the gay guys about: Do gay guys generally find Brad Pitt to be attractive? Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but… eh.
[QUOTE=SolGrundyThe worst way I’ve ever seen it worded was “When you have sex, which one of you is the woman?” Well neither, obviously. That’s pretty much the whole point.
[/QUOTE]
From a lesbian friend of mine: “If I wanted a man, I could get one. I could get several if I let them think they could watch.”
So long as they don’t look at the camera. Complete turn off.
Yes, it’s quite common, especially in those who transition later in life.
Nope. I guess if I were to fantasize about Brad Pitt, which I normally don’t, then I’d just tacitly assume he was bi or something. Of course I generally don’t fantasize about specific people anyway.
Wouldn’t kick him out of bed for eating crackers. Not my favorite celeb type, though.
New question time! While I realize there is no one-size-fits-all General Policy, what’s the feeling about “fag hags” (and I just hate that term, so I use “fairy godmother”)?
I do not actively seek gay men to hang out with, but I do seem to end up fairly regularly in their company. As a teenager, a large proportion of the guys I dated later came out, so I’ve ALWAYS had this. To this day I joke that if there’s a gay man in the room, he will find me and make friends - I’m some kind of magnet! It’s not just guys, either; lesbians seem to like me just fine too. So - am I putting out a distinctly gay-friendly vibe, or did I inadvertantly perform the Secret Handshake or something?
To make my fantasies question more simple I’ll start a new IMHO poll about fantasies and sexual orientation.
No, if I’m fantasizing about sex with a straight man, I’m also a guy.
Re: the “First time” videos:
Those are the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen. None of those would ever work.
Like something I was watching once, where 2 “football players” pin up a 3rd, while a 4th harassed him for sex. He refused, until the 4th player kissed him. He immediately said something like “Oh, yeah. I’ll do anything you want.”
Turn-off.
One other factor about why gay people seem to be disproportionatly middle class.
Gay guys and straight guys are likely to settle into stable, long-term relationships at about the same age. Except, when a straight guy does this, it usually involves having one or more children, which is a huge drain on the finanaces, especially if his wife/girlfriend goes the stay-at-home-mom route and stops bringing in a second income. Gay couples, on the other hand… not so much. Gay sex columnist (and parent) Dan Savage refers to such couples as DINKs: double income, no kids. For those couples, it’s that much easier to maintain a middle-class lifestyle than it would be for an equivalent couple trying to raise a kid.
Man, I hate that.
My own datum on the subject of porn: I’m a bisexual man, and I get off almost exclusively to lesbian porn, and only occasionally to gay male porn. Maybe 80/20*. Never, and I mean never, to heterosexual porn. Don’t know why not, as I certainly enjoy having heterosexual sex, but there’s just something terribly boring about watching straight people fuck.
*At least, that was when I was single. Since I got a boyfriend, it’s pretty much exactly the opposite. Of course, that’s because I’m usually fantasizing about my boyfriend…
Well, my experience in the whole “out and proud” thing is very, very limited, but I’d guess it’s the former. Or rather, putting out a “gay-friendly vibe” is the Secret Handshake. People just tend to pick up on someone’s attitude towards them; I’m less inclined to get chummy with someone if I get the sense he or she is going to judge me or be uncomfortable around me. You attract the gays because you don’t give the impression that you don’t like the gays. (I would explain the real gay Secret Handshake to you, but it’s kind of detailed and may be too much information for this thread.)
And I’d guess that the kind of things you find attractive in another person – either as friends or romantically – happen to be the stereotypical gay traits
I have seen more than a couple self-described “fag hags” who call themselves that because they’re somewhat bitter. They’ve dated or been attracted to guys who turn out to be gay, over and over again, and have the attitude of either “why are all the good men gay?” or “what is wrong with me that I keep getting attracted to homos?” I don’t really know what to say to them, because I can’t relate, obviously.
Same here.
Speaking only for myself and those I know, it often comes down to attitude. I’m generally looking for somebody with a certain strength and poise, the ability to keep up with my sarcasm yet still care. I have a very loooow tolerance for the giggly, simpering types since looks are (quite obviously) not a major driving factor.
Dunno whether thats a good stab at your question or not…
Certainly works as an ego stroke, though!
I don’t get the bitter thing - well, maybe I do, but although I’ve been attracted to guys who end up being gay, I’ve also been attracted to women who end up being straight. Equal opportunity rejection probably gives me a more objective take on things. I would think that the “fag hags” who are bitter about it may be so because they’re not attracting straight guys either? And maybe gay men, because they’re not interested in scoring with these women, don’t give off an immediate “I see no future with you” vibe, and that is misinterpreted as interest?
I live to serve, madam
I would suppose you’re right in that its more generalized bitterness. They aren’t attracting any guys but with straight men they’re never quite certain. Enter Gay Guy and suddenly they have a sharp focus for that sort of pent up frustration and maybe even a certain amount of cop-out in some situation. “Oh I’m not attracting guys because the ones I like are all gay. It couldn’t be because I’m overbearing, neurotic she-bitch to anyone I have any romantic interest in at all!”
Speculation on my part! In my experience, though, I’ve not found many fairy princesses of that style. Of course most of mine are lesbians or bisexual, so I wouldn’t claim a representative sample 
. I love them all to bits, though!
My fag hags skip this step since they tend to be lesbians.
Was Carrie Bradshaw’s basic problem that she was a closet fag hag? I mean, her taste in men went off the radar, from hunks like Big and Aidan to wimps like Berger and the old Russian. (Never did catch his name - his faux culture was too irritating.)
And she had a soft spot for Stanford.
Didn’t we all, though?