[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
This was a new theory, as formulated by Darby (based partially on the visions of a schzophrenic teenage girl), and was really never really a part of any Christian doctrine before him. It is still not accepted by most Christian churches. It’s really sort of peculiar to American fundamentalists.
[/QUOTE]
Wasn’t it the Scofield Reference Bible that made such ideas popular among Fundamentalists?
Ah. On preview, I see that Captain Amazing has addressed this.
While the rapture idea may not be mainstream with theologians, and not part of the doctrine of any mainstream version of Christianity, in my experience, most rank-and-file Christians are not aware of this, and think the rapture is described in the Bible no questions asked.
Which brings up one of my favorite bumper stickers:
IN CASE OF RAPTURE
Can I have your car?
[QUOTE=CurtC]
While the rapture idea may not be mainstream with theologians, and not part of the doctrine of any mainstream version of Christianity, in my experience, most rank-and-file Christians are not aware of this, and think the rapture is described in the Bible no questions asked.
[/QUOTE]
How can something “not be part of the doctrine of any mainstream version of Christianity” and at the same time be believed by “most rank-and-file Christians”? If, in reality, “most” Christians believe it, the idea is mainstream.
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
How can something “not be part of the doctrine of any mainstream version of Christianity” and at the same time be believed by “most rank-and-file Christians”? If, in reality, “most” Christians believe it, the idea is mainstream.
[/QUOTE]
What percentage of Christians think that St Peter will meet them at the pearly gates to discuss thier permanent living arrangements? That’s not exactly official doctrine but I’m guessing that’s going to be a fairly high percentage.
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
How can something “not be part of the doctrine of any mainstream version of Christianity” and at the same time be believed by “most rank-and-file Christians”? If, in reality, “most” Christians believe it, the idea is mainstream.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not part of of the official doctrine of most mainstream denominations. A lot of rank and file Christians have little education about their own official doctrines, though. This kind of conflict between populist conceptions and official doctrines is not unique to Christianity. You might call it a kind of populist, doctrinal “drift.”
[QUOTE=CurtC]
Which brings up one of my favorite bumper stickers:
IN CASE OF RAPTURE
Can I have your car?
[/QUOTE]
I always thought that was a response to the bumper sticker that said, “In case of rapture, this car will be driverless.”
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
It’s not part of of the official doctrine of most mainstream denominations. A lot of rank and file Christians have little education about their own official doctrines, though. This kind of conflict between populist conceptions and official doctrines is not unique to Christianity. You might call it a kind of populist, doctrinal “drift.”
[/QUOTE]
It might not be part of the official doctrine of most mainstream denominations (although most mainstream denominations don’t rule it out…the SBC for instance just says:
without going into detail about how that will occur). But it’s still a mainstream belief within Christianity.
If we really want to advance the cause of secularism, we should insist on Bible study. The number of agnostics graduating from high school will skyrocket.
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
It might not be part of the official doctrine of most mainstream denominations (although most mainstream denominations don’t rule it out…the SBC for instance just says:
without going into detail about how that will occur). But it’s still a mainstream belief within Christianity.
[/QUOTE]
That statement is about the second Coming, not a preliminary “Rapture,” which most mainstream denominations do explicitly reject as un-Biblical.
[QUOTE=SuntanTigerTamer]
[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
I was told that by someone who did study (AFAIK) the original, in ancient Hebrew. I cannot confirm or deny it, having no ability to read any version of Hebrew.
[/QUOTE]
I learned the harden their heart thing in Hebrew School, taught by people who did read Hebrew, and it is in the Haggadah, used for Pesach services, which I doubt would get it wrong.
I’ve heard various justifications for this, including the need to make the break difficult enough so that the Israelites would really appreciate their freedom. This is the first time God appeared to a lot of people at once, and he seemed very into convincing them - see Mose, the rock, and the water.
He might have wanted a good excuse to punish the Egyptians, who were still enemies when the Bible was written. Though the Passover service includes bitter herbs to show that we shouldn’t gloat over the misfortunes of the Egyptians, the killing of the first born and lots of the plagues wouldn’t have happened if the heart hardening didn’t get done.
[QUOTE=SuntanTigerTamer]
Wow, I had never heard any of this before. My family (father, uncles) are all very firm believers in the Rapture, and I always wondered where they got this from. They were, of course, unable to suitably answer my question (“just cuz” stopped cutting it when i was about twelve years old). Thanks Dio.
[/QUOTE]
Kid, here’s some quick advice: don’t tell your family about this!
People don’t love the Facts…they love “The Truth”…as long as it’s their “Truth”.
Facts are cold, hard, & well…real! “Truths” are warm & fuzzy.
And nobody will thank you for mentioning Facts that contradict “Truth”.
Get yer old Uncle Bosda?
[QUOTE=Voyager]
I learned the harden their heart thing in Hebrew School, taught by people who did read Hebrew, and it is in the Haggadah, used for Pesach services, which I doubt would get it wrong.
[/QUOTE]
My WAG is that in the original it said “…then the Gods of the Pharoah hardened his heart…” but around the time it was set to writing the Bible became pretty nigh monotheistic, with only a few possible mentions of the old days still around.
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
Kid, here’s some quick advice: don’t tell your family about this!
People don’t love the Facts…they love “The Truth”…as long as it’s their “Truth”.
Facts are cold, hard, & well…real! “Truths” are warm & fuzzy.
And nobody will thank you for mentioning Facts that contradict “Truth”.
Get yer old Uncle Bosda?
[/QUOTE]
I stopped fighting them long ago. Unless they start it…
[QUOTE=SuntanTigerTamer]
I stopped fighting them long ago. Unless they start it…
[/QUOTE]
Smart boy. 
If I were Satan, I would start sending things flying all over earth and take people out in the sticks captive. I would start a world wide conspiracy UFO movement and get a lot of folks believing that anyone could be ufonapped at any time. On the day of the rapture I would make sure thousands of witnesses saw them and blame the whole missing people thing on the space aliens.
There’s always the whole “I’m bitter that I wasn’t chosen…” path they can take. Or maybe the “I was a good person who wasn’t Christian, who fed the homeless and treated my family well. Why was I not taken? This is no God I would want to worship…” option.
Just a guess.
Three words: Spontaneous Human Combustion. Sure it ain’t real, but convince the guy next to you of that. And if you can toss around a little fire in the environs, even better. Heck, maybe you can convince everyone that the missing elect were actually taken down to hell!
[QUOTE=Lanzy]
If I were Satan, I would start sending things flying all over earth and take people out in the sticks captive.
[/QUOTE]
You’re half right. See, Satan is going to convince the Space Aliens to give me a giant Space Ark and permission to scoop up as many Humans as I want to take along with me. While I’m doing that, God will rapture the believers. That way, everyone left will simply assume that I took a lot more people than I actually did, and that I concentrated on Christians.
I figure it will take me 3.5 years to sort out the people I want. Along the way, I will blast the fuck out of nations that annoy me. “Who is like the Beast, and who is able to wage war on him?” No one, bitches, because I’m the giant motherfucking Space Ark!
I keep seeing pairs of sneakers wrapped around power lines so the rapture may already have happened. Maybe it was a typo but it appears that people wearing sneaks inherited the earth.
I’m so going to hell for that.