I suppose it’d be pointless to bring up at this late juncture that I (am I alone on this one?) have NO idea what exactly Thaidog’s problem is, or why this all upsets him so. Half of these issues don’t seem related to each other or anything else.
Sorry. That was not meant to be belligerent. I wish now I could have edited that. Oh, well. sorry. And yes, marriage to some extent is a get out of jail free card. But only to an extent.
I meant the crucifiction thing being a Get Out of Jail Free card. But this is all pretty confusing to me, as I thought there was quite a bit of emphasis placed on “by fruitful and multiply,” which (or maybe I’m a weirdo) would seem to make it illogical to have sex be a sin. Why have marriage in the first place if sex is verboten?
My upsets come from a hate of being told how to live by what I call nickel and dimmers. My mother is a nickel and dimer. I guess I was raised wrong. Here’s your chance to correct it.
I hate being told how to live by people of any creed or stripe. So I don’t listen to their rules and don’t shy away from pointing out the hypocrisies in them. But you seem to have a great deal more hatred to spew at these people than I do, which for me is almost hard to believe. 
Marriage is a means of curbing a sinful nature. A chance to chase yourself in your sexual nature. Monks and Nuns don’t marry because it’s a sin. That’s it, point blank. Will I get married? More than likely. Will it mean shit to me? No.
That fruitful and multiply thing is used as an excuse for everybody who wants to rashionalize having sex. Being fruitful and multiply is meant more for livestock. That was said once in the old testament. No, I’m not yelling.
I know. I know. It seems out of place. But my mom just acts like such a nun and lives the life of a devil. Ask my little bro. He’s probably more pissed about her hypocrisies than me. That’s why I’m venting here.
I hear Christians disavow the OT a lot - I don’t think Jesus would’ve looked kindly on it, though.
Marriage is “a chance to chase yourself of your sexual nature?” What’s that mean, that people are supposed to get married so they WON’T have sex? Sex is a sin, pre/extra-marital sex is a sin, and marriage itself is a sin? This goes beyond damned if you do/damned if you don’t…
Sorry, when I hear “get out of jail free”, I automatically think of the marriage clause. My bad.
Sex is a sin… mild examples: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
Having sex outside of marriage.
Extreme examples, yet still sin according to greco-roman interpretation and hebrew interpretations:
Having sexual thoughts
masturbation
Yeap they’re sins!
The former is a property issue, the latter a contractual one (sex OUTSIDE of marriage being a sin isn’t the same as sex itself being a sin).
I know that. Although I don’t know why you’re so sharply criticizing people for acknowledging that attempting to live up to these ideas is highly unrealistic and choosing to do something more sensible instead.
The old testament is actually a lot tougher than the new testament when interpreted properly. It does not surprise me to hear you say that… the old testament and the new testament are 2 entirely different works… old test was written 1st in hebrew, the new testament in greek then latin.
A lot of the interpretation is left out of the OT and thus you get people mindlessly uttering crap they heard from somebody else like “Be fruitful and multiply” hmmm how hard is it to say sex! I’m down for that part! Or it’s in there, you just have to look for it! Lord please, how could you miss the ten commandments? (no not you, I’m talking to those who utter mindlessly, not those who seek knowledge)
Yes, I know that. But the first one was all Jews at that point in history had to go on, and everyone I’ve ever heard speak on the subject says Jesus would’ve considered himself a Jew. Therefore, he couldn’t have cast the entire scripture out.
Nothing in there against sex itself that I can see.
I have to ask again: if you’re so irritated that these people are telling you how to live, why are you doing the same thing?
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife… that’s all sex unless you gay.
I’m tired of it being ok for them and somehow not for me at the same time.
It could also be considered envy since immediately following it, you’re told to not covet his servants, livestock, or any of his property.
If all sex is sin, and if God loves us so much as to call all of us his children, why would he prefer that we vanish from the face of the earth via not reproducing?
Thaidog, I’m not only a Christian, I’m also a former Sunday School teacher. Now that I’ve given you a reason to dislike me, here’s an opportunity to change your mind. I hate hypocrisy every bit as much as you do, which is why I’ve been known to spend a fair amount of my time arguing with Christians, in GD and elsewhere. I’m Episcopalian, and I figure if I ever decide to change, I’m much more likely to become Wiccan than a Fundamentalist Christian.
Here’s my bottom line. My faith is rooted in the teachings of Christ, both His words and his actions. The way I reconcile Old Testament and New is this rooted in Christ’s answer to what the most important commandment was.
Look, I don’t blame you for being “tired of it being ok for them and somehow not for me at the same time.” I recently quit another message board for that reason. As someone who takes her faith seriously, I have to try to respect them and understand them, even when I don’t particularly like them. I don’t always want to, but that comes of being human.
I don’t believe all sex is sinful. I struggled a bit with it when I was younger, but I don’t believe masturbation is sinful. I also don’t believe homosexuality is sinful. Promiscuity, using sex to harm, using sex to dishonor one’s self and God, these things are sinful. Sexuality in and of itself isn’t. A hammer can be used to build a church or to smash windows. Which is sinful – the hammer or the use it’s put to? In Wicca, sex is an act of worship. I lost my viriginity somewhat later than some, but I do agree that in the right circumstances, it definitely has holy aspects to it. Then again, I am a rather unusual Christian. A question for you: if “marriage is a means of curbing a sinful nature,” then why was Christ’s very first miracle changing water into wine at a wedding? If you like, feel free to throw in the whole “wine bad; grape juice good” thing if you like – I don’t get that either.
I don’t blame you for being upset, frustrated, and fed up. I get liek that, too. All I can say is another time honored response: “We’re not all like that, I promise.”
Welcome to the Board and check out GD – you might find it eye-opening.
CJ
And perhaps you should read the Song of Solomon which glorifies sexual love and “sexual thoughts”.
God made sex in all its passionate intensity and he made it beautiful. He likes it and it reminds him of the way he feels about humanity. He just doesn’t want it to be operated the wrong way, ie outside marriage, because that would turn a beautiful thing ugly and sour.
Siege:
Friend, I don’t hate you… I really don’t hate my mother… it’s just sad I can’t have a scientific conversation with her because she does not believe evolution. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs… this is mine. I can’t be a Christian simply because I feel I can not live up to my own belief system. As far a my views on sexuality being a sin… I don’t let that get in the way of my sex life either… at least I try not to let it… sometimes my demons get the best of me. As far as your views, they are neotraditional and that’s all good… but it’s not my feeling toward the subject. like I said I feel that everyone should be entitled to their own chance to look around and go Shinto if they have to… When a church gets paid to have a bigger congregation, I’m sure you see the evident conflict of interest. But Jesus was married? Please… that will be the next thing out the gate.
Yes, song of Solomon. Truly controversial… What about the new testament where Jesus says to give up everything and take up your cross? What about that? Hey, there are things that culture frowns upon today and things it does not, but that does not make it right. Sex is a hot topic, but just one, but since it’s so hot I knew I’d get the most responses. Personally I think people guard sex so much because it is so sinful. It is such a forbidden pleasure. People love to break the law, and if sex is wrong, it makes it just that much better.
Last time I checked oral sex was illegal where I live! Can you beleive that! It’s funny to see the laws that are actually out there still in the books, but not practiced.