I think I figured out Thaidog’s problem - it’s not religion, but sex!
But unlike you, I wouldn’t dismiss your logic because I don’t agree. Because to someone who doesn’t know him, it is indeed hard to believe that a person can be that trustworthy and that perfectly honourable-- more trustworthy than your own eyes.
However, the way it works is that one will never get to know him until one is willing to, just for a moment, consider that he might be wrong, and actually ask my friend himself-- and be open to what he says in response.
Tell oyu waht, let’s drop this analogy and get to the facts.
Furst, I’m curious to know what you understand to be the claims of evolutionary biology and how they contradict the Biblical account.
This is quite simply untrue; there is an overwhelming amount of research and evidence in support of evolutionary theory, one might almost say a frightening amount, certainly there are folks that seem to find it too frightening to look at.
I think though, that creationism/evolution would be rather too much of a hijack on Thaidog’s thread, maybe we could do it in another one, but perhaps someone other than myself would like to start it?
Moderator’s Note: Rumraisin, please review our FAQ on Trolling.
Reactor, I’ve been debating Christianity on this Board for over 3 years now. I’ve read the passages in Leviticus and Paul, and I have given the core of my faith earlier in this thread. What ThaiDog posted about is real. Gossip, slander, and malice were condemned by Paul in the exact same passages, the exact same clauses in which he condemned “fornication”. When someone sees Christians condone such actions or participate in them while roundly condemning homosexuality or other practices, they can be turned away.
I understood ThaiDog to be looking for some positive about Christianity. Why didn’t you show him one, instead of focusing on the negative? I’ve had my share of negative experiences at the hands of Christians; worse, I’ve been helpless when my best friend had them (not at the hands of Fundamentalists, for the record). When asked to be a witness to my faith, I do not focus on the harm it has done, but on the good. I could have sworn the OP was asking for bread. Why did you give him a stone?
I’m not good enough to be a Christian. I fall short of the law almost every day. “Love my neighbor as myself”? I drive to work down a freeway at rushhour (admittedly going out of the city), and I deal with telephone solictors! On the other hand, as I see it one of the main points of Christianity is that we do not succeed; we only have to try. If our sins are not forgiven, then Christ’s death is meaningless.
Concerning masturbation, yes, I feel lust when I masturbate, or, more precisely, I feel lust then I masturbate. I also eat when I feel hungry, and drink when I am thirsty. As I said, I struggled with the issue of masturbation for years, even trying to give it up for Lent more than once. Even with the Sunday loophole, I didn’t succeed. I have felt lust for inappropriate people, and in inappropriate situations. Heck, I’ve even managed both at the same time! I have not acted upon that lust. My conclusion after much prayer, is that lust is another appetite of the body, which we are to indulge judiciously and in a way which, if it does not consciously glorify God (does eating ice cream or drinking hot chocolate on a cold day consciously glorify God?), does not dishonor Him.
As I said, I’m an unusual Christian, and I don’t expect you to agree with me. I would respectfully ask that when a person appears to be looking for a reason not to dislike Christianity, that you not give them reasons to dislike it or to consider themselves unworthy of becoming Christians. If you believe that not believing in Christ is sinful, I’ll ask you to remember Matthew 18:6, Mark 9:42, and Luke 17:2. Regardless of what you believe on that subject, I’ll also remind you of Romans 3:23, “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” All of us are unworthy, but, through Christ, all are made worthy.
Respectfully,
CJ
cough 2nd Infancy Gospel cough
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Reactor *
**Hi Thaidog. I’d like to share something with you that may rekindle a faith that may be inside of you, waiting to burst on out. I feel for your situation. I really do.
Siege…
Thanks Siege. I know that I could not be the only person here on this forum who has seen these things for them-self. I try to live my life as a live and let live type of lifestyle. As long as you’re not in my way I give you the space you need for whatever your thing. I feel people need to make their own mistakes, since people so hate being taught by others. Because of this, even though I might not like these christians, I would never call them out on it… I would merely try to fit in to whatever temporary situation I’m thrown in with them. But bottom line for me, ALL sex is sinful according to my interpretation, which I feel is the best, because I did a ton of studying and devoted a ton of time and money on it… simply because I struggle with religion so much. BUT, I don’t follow it, simply because my sex drive is just not that manageable. In other words, I’d make a horrible monk, but would not mind being one.
Why did I pick sex for this instead of something more cut an dry like murder? Simply because it’s just that, not cut and dry. Everybody struggles to control their sex drive. That and the fact that everybody struggles to rationalize sex as a good thing.
So what to take from this? If you ask me my views on Christianity, I’ll say to you what I have said here. Most people don’t like that, but hey, that’s my view!
It sounds like you know what I’m talking about. Do you feel all sex is a sin as well? What do you think about nun’s and monks taking a val of celibacy?
That’s it. I gotta get laid:D
Rationalize, schmationalize. Sex is a good thing. I’m surprised there are so many people out there trying to rationalize why they feel that sex is a bad thing!
Personally I feel sex is a good thing to… it solves all sorts of problems for me. But what I’m trying to point out is that sex is regarded as sinful by the scriptures.
No it isn’t. Lust outside of marriage is sinful. And what it is sin? It is lawlessness. What you’re talking about on here is trying to appease your flesh. It’s pleasurable for a season, but it isn’t going to solve all your problems. In fact, it’ll create more.
“Why didn’t you show him one, instead of focusing on the negative?”
This the internet, and if I could cook him a meal or show him (or anyone else) how I would lay my life down for him, I would. But look, sin is sin, and God is dead serious about it. I’d rather give him the fright of his lifetime now than let him have it in from of the judgement seat of God.
“…as I see it one of the main points of Christianity is that we do not succeed; we only have to try.”
Yes, good, but John wills us to be free of our sin in each and every way. How? By the power of the Spirit. God himself says “Be holy as I am holy.” and while I understand what you’re saying (and agree with it to a point) I am only reminded of the scriptures where Paul calls for us to cast of the sin that so easily entangles.
Doesn’t the bible say that to those who are perishing, the cross is foolishness? Why do you think that’s so? It’s because (as Paul says) except by the law he wouldn’t have known what sin was. How can Christ save someone from their sin, and how can they repent, if they don’t know how far they’ve fallen short?
“My conclusion after much prayer, is that lust is another appetite of the body…”
That’s your belief (and I like your analogies, but they don’t prove anything) but that conclusion doesn’t line up with the scriptures. I know of people who are wound very tightly sexually (I’m one of them) and these people do not masterbate. I don’t mean to sound offensive, but your reasoning sounds like a convenient excuse. It can be beaten, with time and dedication. Doesn’t James say that if we don’t do what we know were supposed to do, it is sin? Why do you feel guilty (even shameful?) about it? It’s because the law is written on your heart in the form of your conscience. I don’t even need to tell you it’s wrong. You already know it is, and if you’d like to know more my email is always available, because God knows this isn’t the thread to be talking about it 
“All of us are unworthy, but, through Christ, all are made worthy.”
I agree so much with what you’re saying here, it isn’t even funny.
Thaidog, IMHO the Old Testament does not regard sex as sinful – it celebrates it as one of God’s gifts.
Imagine if sex were not enjoyable: “Oh, damn, hon, if we want a kid, we’ve got to go through that again. I know it’s a drag, but having a little one will be worth the annoyance. I don’t like it any better than you do, but we’ve gotta go through with it if we ever want to have a child.” (And notice that that could be put in the mouth of either partner to a marriage, in this setup.)
But like anything else in the world, it can have a good use or a bad use. The same knife can stab a person to death or, in the hands of a skilled surgeon, save a life. Political power can prevent abuse of people, or can enforce it. And so on.
Sexual release is an intensely personal pleasure, and therefore in some ways selfish. And it’s very easy to use someone else as a sex object – we’ve all been tempted – to gratify our own desires. And, of course, in Bible times there was the strong possibility that a sex act would result in a child which would need care and nurturing as it grows up (still true today, though we can usually practice contraception if we choose). So the various commandments about sex are geared to trying to place it in a context that most people generally want sooner or later, anyway – sex within a committed relationship, where the partners will provide for any children that ensue.
They’re not condemning sex – just its abuse.
And, of course, some people are called to lives that require them to abstain from sex (at least with others), simply because what they’re out to accomplish doesn’t leave room for a sex life, and they consider that goal more important than getting laid. Fine, so long as it’s their choice.
Now, what Paul does with this is something else again. As a good Jew, Paul approved of marriage – but he had a major hangup with sex.
And, of course, there has been something over a century of hypocrisy in teaching children about sex in Christian terms. It’s not a case of “Go jerk off and wait until you’ve met the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with” but in far too many cases it’s “The whole idea is evil.” That’s not the message that they’re trying to convey – but it’s the one that sticks with the kids.
And you know, I think a lot of what people have against “Christianity” is usually, when you get right down to it, what they have against some joker’s boiled-down-and-simplified set of rules that is supposed to approximate Christianity, not the belief system itself.
BTW, my offer earlier to meet you for coffee and conversation was quite serious.
NO. it does not! read my site, then look it up for yourself.
http://www.geocities.com/claudetyler/re.htm
The wisdom I gained took a long time to earn, look it up for yourself and make it your wisdom too.
Monks don’t take vals of celibusy because sex is ok. Quite the opposite, otherwise it would not be a val.
oh, got it. Sorry.
I’m not an expert on the subject. I believe that one of the things that is claimed is that we human beings are a result of random mutations over millions of years, which contradicts what the Bible says about God creating us from scratch, and purposefully.
The point is that I’m not debating on what the facts are here. I’m trying to explain to you why Christians who believe in Creation still do, despite science saying the contrary. It all boils down to coming to believe that what God says more reliable than what your investigations tell you. And if we’ve found God to be really reliable before, it makes sense to take his word on this too.
If you want to prove it to me scan your proof and post it to a site. All my references come out of religious study books and out of the mouths of people who have at least one Phd in religion. References like the Oxford Companion to the Bible: Bible Dictionary. Have you bothered to dig that deep? Or are you still asking your sunday school teacher? That is not good enough for me to accept your statement. I need referenced, documneted proof. Many a years I have studied. Do I have a PHd in it? No. Could I? I’ve been told so. Yeah, I’m a smart ass, but don’t let me stubborness get you down, simply dig up some documented proof. Like I said, giving a blowjob is not only a sin in my town, its against the law.
I’m not an expert on the subject. I believe that one of the things that is claimed is that we human beings are a result of random mutations over millions of years, which contradicts what the Bible says about God creating us from scratch, and purposefully.
The point is that I’m not debating on what the facts are here. I’m trying to explain to you why Christians who believe in Creation still do, despite science saying the contrary. It all boils down to coming to believe that what God says more reliable than what your investigations tell you. And if we’ve found God to be really reliable before, it makes sense to us to take his word on this too.
bah, double post