You’re right about this. 199 Republicans voting for the measure to honor the Capitol police officers versus 12 Republicans voting against it does not add up to Republicans in general “refusing to condemn cop killers”.
However, it should be noted that the 12 Nay-vote Republicans include several high-profile and popular leaders and AFAICT are getting no serious pushback for their vote from their party. So it is fair to say that the Republican Party is, for example, “excessively tolerant of refusal to condemn cop killers” (as long as the cop killers in question are white conservatives, of course).
Um. Cassidy and Romney are still serving in the Senate, I guess? And so is Collins, and so is Sasse? I’m not really sure where you’re going with this; I thought the claim was that none of them would point something out, is all.
The Republican Party is an entity that is larger than any individual voter. That entity acts in evil ways. Not just sometimes, but consistently. Not as a by product, but as its purpose. Not just at the highest level, but at all levels. Not just politicians, but its entire loud support structure. And they are encouraged to do so by overwhelming percentages of their voters.
As long as all those things are true, no defense of the Republican Party as an entity can be meaningfully made. Everyone who supports, enables, abets, encourages, donates, speaks for, or votes for Republicans is equally complicit. Speaking against Trump is a mayfly in a maelstrom. The stench of the Party pervades the land. A tsunami is needed. Your Trump-negating Republicans will be rightfully swept away unless they leave the party. Until then the shroud of complicity weighs all of you down leaving you in the rancid muck of your own making.
But that doesn’t mean that all specific Republican actions are equally indefensible. When most of the Congressional Republicans vote with the Democrats on something, that represents a different position, and sends a different message, from when most or all Republicans vote against the Democrats on something.
If there is a way to vote for and/or support an individual Republican that might be considered “good” without supporting the Republican Party itself, I have yet to hear of it.
I don’t think that people are saying that every single Republican voter is evil, some may just be misinformed, or in denial about the extent to which the party has fallen to Trumpism, or even that every last Republican politician is irredeemable, just that at this point the party as a whole is on the side of evil.
To analogize*. At this point saying you support the Republican party but not Trump is akin to saying in 1932 that you support the Nazi party, just not Hilter. And yes despite being a Nazi, Oskar Schindler wasn’t so bad, but that doesn’t mean the Nazis weren’t the party of evil.
*Note, this is just an analogy. I’m not Godwinizing by saying the Republicans are anywhere near the same level of evil as the Nazis (yet), Just that they share aspects of being ruled by a cult of personality and can be characterized as having a particular quality despite that quality not being represented wholly in every member.
Fair opinion, I was trying to step beyond normal politics and conservative positions to the actual crazy and harmful actions and the lies that create the violence.
I’m separating not liking ideas from hurting people. So I probably shouldn’t grant the anti-gay and anti-transgender attitudes. I get them - I’ve been that guy. I have purposefully and intentionally changed my attitude toward transgender people. It takes empathy and decency, which is sorely lacking in many people.
The point is that the Republican Party supports Trump, the Republican base is largely Trumpers, that the positions of many of the current Republicans are repulsively hateful, cruel, and crazy. Even the prominent Republican politicians who don’t like Trump and the crazy mostly support it. The ones that make vocal opposition are either quitting or being censored by their own party. The state level is worse than the federal level.
The Party takes positions that are anti-democratic and full of lies. It supports the liars and defends the indefensible on the grounds of “He supports our conservative positions”. They let Trump get away with trying to coordinate with Russia on the 2016 election because he didn’t make concrete information exchange. They let Trump get away with trying to coerce a foreign leader into slandering Biden for political gain. They don’t care a whit about racists taking prominent roles - like Stephen Miller. They stand unified in opposing almost any Democratic position - like Covid relief that actually addresses the full extent of the impacts of the pandemic. A significant number opposed a bill to award a Congressional Gold Medal to law enforcement agencies because they didn’t think their constituents would like the implication of the events on Jan. 6 being labeled an “insurrection” in the description of the citation.
So, participating in the Republican Party and supporting Republican Party candidates - even nominally anti-Trump and not batshit crazy - is contributing to the Party that empowers the Trumpists and batshit crazies, and refuses to stand for integrity and law when it means their party takes a hit.
They are still chanting “Lock Her Up” about Hillary while letting Trump skate on, well, everything up to and including telling Putin state secrets.
So, the Party leadership and the Party as a whole is trash. If you have integrity and stand for truth and decency, then something has got to change. Either fix the party or get out of it.
Yeah, well, those who voted against the loonies lost.
Did they vote to impeach or convict Trump in either Impeachment? Did they vote to pass or block the Covid Relief Bill? Did they speak out and say that the election was fair and honest and the results valid, that Biden and Harris were elected fair and square? Did they tell Cruz that his blatant pandering is embarrassing and harmful to America? Did they vote to strip Greene of her committee assignments? Did they vote for or against the Violence Against Women Act of 2021? How did they vote on the Congressional Gold Medals to law enforcement? Have they publicly opposed any of the craziness, or been silent, or vocally supported the lies?
I agree with you that every Republican identifying citizen is not batshit crazy, hateful, Trump infatuated, and white supremacist. However, the Party is not doing anything to oppose those who are, and are actively supporting them. The Party leadership and the politicians being elected by your non-Trump-cult Republican friend are defending and supporting Trump and the crazies, and attacking any Republican that speaks out publicly.
Obviously, the level of response by the Trumpers is at the level of the person speaking out. A guy socializing at a party* and saying anti Trump statements to a Trumper will get Pro-Trump response. A state legislator speaking out will get official party notice and attention at the state level. A federal legislator gets censured by their own party - even though Cindy McCain was upheld in her position, she was still censured for her statements.
*During covid, probably without masks.
So ask him why he still supports a Party and Party candidates who are so supportive of Trump. Ask him what he is doing to change his party, to get rid of the crazies within and the lies they spout. I mean, he’s not being silent, but he still supports them. How is that better?
That’s a great first step - vote against Trump. Now, what else is he doing to get rid of the crazies in the party? Is he calling his elected officials and telling them to stop supporting the nonsense? Is he telling them to stop the lies? Or is he supporting candidates who are mum when Cruz goes on about “needing to restore faith in the electoral process” when the reason Americans are losing faith is because of the lies by people like him?
I get it. He’s conservative, he wants conservatives in office for the conservative agenda. But the Party needs a reckoning if it doesn’t want more Trump. If he’s not fixing it, he’s abetting it.
"Nebraska’s most politically involved Republicans, many of whom have been itching to give U.S. Sen. Ben Sasse a piece of their mind, sent him a message on Saturday.
TOWP wants us to cut some slack for his friends because they would like to go back to the Republican Party before Trump took it over.
That would be the Republican Party that’s been evil for the last 50 years. The Republican Party that ran a bigoted hate campaign against Obama for eight years. The Republican Party that ran a sexist hate campaign against Hillary Clinton. The Republican Party that fights voter rights and minorities in every state they hold power. The Republican party that been on the wrong side of history on every issue since the Southern Strategy. That pre-Trump party.
No. They are complicit in that evil. Maybe they are active proselytizers of that evil. They deserve nothing but scorn. They should be shunned by every decent human being. No defense of them can be accepted.
I’m not asking you to cut them any slack, and I didn’t say they were friends, so your summary needs work; I’ve merely been taking issue in this thread when folks make absolutist statements about stuff other than what you’re on about here. I haven’t been arguing in defense of Republican positions or tactics — or much of anything else — while just pointing out whatever looks like a false claim whenever I happen to see what looks like a false claim.
If someone flatly declares that every Republican, or every Democrat, is under six feet tall, well, I’d take issue with that likewise, and for the same reason.
Yes, yes, we get it. You’ve beaten it into the ground. You’re arguing a side point that absolutely nobody else cares about while studiously avoiding the real issue that everybody else here is talking about.
Just come out and say it. Is the Republican Party evil or not?
Which party has lead to the most termination of Black lives?
I understand liberals do not think ripping the arms and legs off of a fetus is evil, the tree of body autonomy must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of fetuses and all that.