The Return of Fascism

Great Debates
#1

Saw this article and thought I’d share it here. The author gives the best explanation of the social mechanics of fascism I’ve ever read:

My only quibble is his claim that 1980s Reaganomics created the “stagnation” first phase. I think it started in the 1970s. After a quarter-century golden age roughly 1945-1970, the '70s were an era of sharp downturn. I’d argue that what Reagan did was to create the illusion of renaissance by strip-mining the middle class and paying for a get-tough stance with the USSR with deficit spending. In other words, he gave a sick man a shot of amphetamine and called the temporary energy spurt a recovery.

#2

Any time an officer gets physical with a citizen (whether justified or not) it gets broadcast to the whole world and outrage ensues.

In short, fascism (in any meaningful use of the term) is not coming back. It is more of an Orwellian placation that we are heading toward. Do you really think Donald Trump would (much less could, politically) put all Muslims into concentration camps? He is not the Hitler of 2015.

#3

“History doesn’t always repeat itself. Sometimes it just screams, “Why don’t you listen to me?” and lets fly with a big stick.”

-John W. Campbell Jr

As others more sage than I also said the point is that to avoid fascism we all have to be eternally vigilant. And we have to tell the not evil enough guys (The diet cokes of evil? The Margarines of evil?) to stop even riffing the ones that only led their nations to ruin.

#4

I just don’t see contemporary America being a fertile ground for fascism. Fascism needs a widespread sense of loss and despair. We’re basically too well off to want to overthrow our current system.

#5

He lost me in the first paragraph. How dare he talk about Hillary, “the leading contender for president”, that way!

#6

Right-wing populism=/=Fascism

#7

If neither fascism nor communism nor even plain old socialism caught on in the USA during the Great Depression, it’s impossible for me to envision a scenario in which they DID win widespread support.

#8

Depression provides a useful parallel-Trump is more right-wing Huey Long then Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini and/or Vladimir Lenin.

#9

One of the great money-making pieces for journalists and authors is to claim fascism is on the rise somewhere in the Western world. Anyone of a certain age knows newspapers have warned us of this rise of modern fascism for the past 30 years or so. These warnings have so far proven to be wrong. I suppose one day fascism may rise, but I refuse to be unduly concerned when previous warnings have been so completely and utterly wrong.

#10
  1. The internment of the Japanese, in the US, was not instituted by Fascists.
  2. While Fascists are generally xenophobic, only the Nazis made racism into a centerpiece of their politics.

I’m hardly an expert on Fascism, but it still wasn’t too hard to find flaws in the article’s basic understanding of things, which didn’t make me care too much about what he’s saying.

Personally, I care much more about China, Singapore, and Japan when it comes to modern day Fascism than I do about Donald Trump.

#11

Well, [del]most[/del] many of the Ukrainian fighters supported by the reflexively anti-Putin West — in that phase * — seemed remarkably fascist.
However, capitalism has destroyed fascism, as it grinds up and spits out all idealistic fantasies: it will use it when needed, as in the 1920s, but is as likely to use anti-fascism as fascism. It depends on whatever makes money.

O, it’s Vladdy this, an’ Vladdy that, an’ “Vladdy go away”;
But it’s “Thank you, Mister Putin”, when the band begins to play.

#12

“What you mean ‘we,’ white man?”

(Don’t actually know if you’re white or not :wink: but still the point is there to be made.)

#13

Actually racial minorities (blacks, Hispanics, and Asiatics) express more optimism about the future in polls compared to at least poorer whites-which makes sense since while things may be bad for them, they’ve nonetheless been improving compared to not that long ago.

#14

This is correct. Even France, where the Front National has scored 30% in voting, is nowhere ripe for facism. (Trump’s popularity can be dismissed; much is just clowning around with pollsters about a clown.)

Umair believes fascism will emerge when a demagogue can unite the dissatisfied on the left with the dissatisfied on the right. But the gulf between left and right in America is far too big for this to happen anytime soon.

He does make one good point however:

I think it’s very unfortunate that America’s Left is very excited they can smoke marijuana legally, etc. … and they get so stoned they’re hardly aware their country is being stolen out from under them by Wall St. and the Koch Brothers.

#15

I did say “widespread”. Despite what some people claim, white people are still the largest ethnic group in America and are likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. Other ethnic groups might feel loss and despair but they’re not going to be able to overthrow the government.

#16

During Reagan’s Administration, after the first few years, the economy actually grew. By what measure, you ask? By any measure. GDP, median income, stock market, … That’s the main reason Reagan was so popular and crushed Walter Mondale by such a huge margin.

One can rationally debate whether Reagan deserves credit for the growth, but not whether the growth existed. The middle class was not “strip-mined”, it did remarkably well.

#17

They’re aware all right. They just have no idea what in hell can be done about it short of mass violent unrest, which nobody wants. (Nobody on the Left, anyway.)

#18

Embrace Trumpism. Run candidates that are unapologetic and not afraid to mudsling. Revitalize unions and general involvement in social life. Stop cucking over guns. Rebuild political machines. Stop being an ivory-tower movement.

#19

Borrow-and-spend always works great in the short term. But it’s economic foolishness. In the eight years of Reagan’s presidency, the national debt went from $908,000,000,000 to $2,602,000,000,000.

#20

On Nazi Germany, Germans have always had pseudo-fascist leaders back to the age of the Kaisers. Germans love things to be tightly controlled in and order.

I just dont see Americans like this.