The Rise of Labels and "Privilege"

I’m trying to wrap my head around this recent shift in how women’s rights and lbgt groups seem to come up with new labels every day. While it makes sense to have labels for certain things, I feel like I starting to draw the line at “cissexual” (as the normal opposite to transsexual). I generally consider myself a pretty liberal person but I can see this as my “old person” thing, just like my grandparents being racist just because they were raised in that environment. I might just lose it when my kid says “why can’t you accept Tommy? I know a lot of people who are gray-asexual demiplatonic fairykins.”

There’s also talk about everyone “checking their priviledge.” This usually makes sense when you’re talking about male priviledge or white priviledge, but now it’s getting into “thin priviledge.”

Where is this even coming from? Is it just a stupid tumblr thing or is there actual merit to creating all these random-ass terms to cover very niche on the spectrum of sexuality? I don’t even know what to think…What do you think, dopers?

How would you define someone who isn’t “transsexual” or “bisexual” or “homosexual”? Wouldn’t your go-to word be “normal”? That’s one of the reasons they make up words: To avoid calling everyone who isn’t them “normal.”

Another reason is that when you are trying to tease out your feelings (along with many others) it becomes incredibly hard to figure out what you vs others are talking about. The way you describe feelings and needs is completely different from anyone around you. Creating a vocabulary helps that process evolve into a more expressive method by create a lowest-common-denominator.

I don’t particularly identify with the term “cis male” myself (being a heterosexual male) but I don’t really care with being labeled that if it helps someone else figure their own feelings out.

I’m sure you’ll have the usual percentage of jackasses that pervades society that tries to get in your face about that sort of terminology, but you should be able to safely ignore them and let them work out their own issues without being all sorts of offended that they are calling you something fairly benign.

This kind of labeling isn’t new, and it’s always been fringe. It’s just that all “fringes” have heightened visibility due to the fact that everyone’s got a blog, Facebook, Twitter account, message board, etc. Everyone’s opinions are out there for the world to see. Opinions typically beget other, similar opinions.

Also, it’s a lot more comfortable nowadays for people to talk about identity politics because more people are going to college and taking classes that touch on this subject. My advanced education was as opposite of “liberal arts” as you can get, and even I took an elective in “race and gender in science” that exposed me to the lingo. I don’t take well to the subject, mind you. But it doesn’t induce eyerolls in me to the degree it would if I had no exposure at all.

Some of it isn’t that extreme. I don’t know if “transman” and “transwoman” are ideal, but they sure beat “dude looks like a lady” and “he-be-she-be”. On the other hand, I once heard about how transgendered students at one academic institution were demanding others refer to them by their own creative personal pronouns, like “truck” instead of “she”. That’s straight-up bananas! I can’t imagine a well-adjusted, socially functional adult making this demand outside of the sheltered atmosphere of a feminist collective. I don’t see society embracing this any time soon. But coming up with new words to describe identities which have been historically invisible? Sure.

Self-selected labels are identity, and it is extremely difficult to have a discussion without definitions.

And “check your privilege” means to consider the condition of the target of your comment; a newer way to say the old “Walk a mile in the other person’s shoes” adage.

But, I agree that both the labels and the privilege-police are being spread pretty darn thinly in some areas and are becoming more like catch phrases to end discussions rather than a teaching opportunity.

I’m just this guy, y’know?

Yes.

Why do you feel like you have to “draw the line?” Are you meeting or working with transpeople IRL such that you’re getting this directed at you every day? Is it causing you hardship and grief in your life?

Cisgender or cissexual are useful shorthands for discussion. IME, and I have quite a bit, they are uncommonly used IRL conversation, and mainly appear in writing. I use it in conversation because I am a transgender researcher (in addition to being a transsexual). But I think I’ve heard only a couple of friends ever use it.

New terms arise continuously through eras. “Negro” to “black” to “African-American” to “people of color.” None is really accurate for the person being described, but there you are. Cis and transgender are at least more accurate descriptors.

There are innumerable labels in my community.

Crossdresser.

  • Drag king/queen.
  • Transvestite.
    Genderqueer
    Questioning
    Transsexual
    Transgender
    Intersex
    Transwoman/transman/transgirl/transboy/transkid/transsenior
    G-girl, T-girl, I-girl
    Cisgender
    Pre-op, Post-op, Non-op
    M2F, F2M, MTF, FTM
    Two-spirit, berdache, third sex, hijra

And the offensive/sometimes offensive ones
TERF (trans-exclusionist radical feminist)
Tranny
Ladyboy/ladyboi
Hermaphrodite
She-male

Keeping them all straight takes some practice. And still leads to problems - for example, I’m helping organize a weekly “power lunch” for other transsexual women in the business world who are fully out. The problem is we have crossdressers trying to show up, thinking that they are “trans(sexuals)” because Virginia Prince and others pushed so hard to include them under the “transgender” umbrella. This has caused problems, as there is a rapidly growing “gender war” forming in my community between transsexual women and crossdressers.

It’s not “cissexual”, it’s “cisgendered”. The term “transexual” is basically on its way out for “transgendered”, because people assume “transexual” has some sort of sexual preference or something involved - but you can be straight, gay, bi, or whatever as a transgendered person. As for why use the term… well, what else do you use to refer to not-trans people? “Not-trans” is othering, and “normal” is pretty damn offensive. I really don’t see anything wrong with the term, myself.

This is almost always said as a joke to make fun of people who acknowledge that there’s some advantage to being a straight white guy (or whatever) in today’s society. I have never seen that phrase used seriously, but seen it used in a mocking, nasty context dozens of times by racists and homophobes. Not saying it doesn’t happen, just likely not as common as the reverse.

A lot of new labels comes out of academic writing. Someone is studying a subset of people, and if there isn’t already a label for the subset, they either make one up or are forced to use some long string of modifiers, limiters, qualifiers, etc. every time they refer to the subset.

And the author gets extra credit if other people pick up and use their term.

While what you say is entirely true, I don’t like it and neither do almost all transsexual women I personally know. We do not necessarily like being included under the “big tent” of transgender that much because we want people to know how deadly serious it is to actually transition fully and survive. I put my entire life on the line and rolled the dice when I transitioned last year.

In other words, crossdressers and drag queens who call themselves transgender tell me how “hard” their life is because their wife might find their girl stuff in the trunk of their car. Whereas my transsexual friends tell me how hard their life is because they lost their career, their health insurance, their home, their car, their family, their friends, their spouse, and/or even their kids.

The reason I bring this up is that if “transsexual” goes the way of “Negro,” I’m convinced a new nomenclature will spring up for people like me. I like “transawesome.” :slight_smile:

I apologize, then. I am cis, and I had picked up my knowledge from the groups online mentioned in the opening post that I follow due to some friends having a strong involvement in them. I had never heard of a crossdresser or a drag queen as being labeled under “transgender” before, and the entire concept is deeply strange to me. I’m not sure if this is a generational thing or a community thing. I am pretty sure that even hearing about such a thing would make some of the people I know harshly scold the person using that term.

This.

I have only ever heard the expression cisgendered here on the dope, and then only when discussing matters where this particular label matters and is useful. Nobody is forcing me to use this label, but it is helpful for people to know what I am talking about. So I happily use it.

IRL, my next door neighbor is in the middle of transition from male to female. We talk every so often about how she is doing, feeling, work, surgery, etc… It might come up in a conversation with her, but even then it hasn’t yet.

I don’t necessarily think there is a rise in labels. But certainly it seems there is a rise in awareness, and a heck of a lot more social pressure to conform to a level of social/political correctness. Personally I think this is a good thing. YMMV

I always thought that transsexual implied biological modifiction whereas transgendered was more focused on gender identity?

My biggest problem with all of these new terms is I have no idea what they mean. (Especially “privilege”, that one took me ages to figure out based on context) and nobody who uses them seems to feel that there’s any need to actually define them.

I’ve been burned with “check your privilege” which sounds like it basically translates to, “if you are a straight while male, you’re not allowed to contribute to this conversation.” Karrius says it’s meant tongue-in-cheek, but how the heck would I be expected to know that? I didn’t go to whatever school taught this stuff.

Anyway, I don’t know what the solution is, and I personally have a good handle on it now (I think), but I really wish people who use this new terminology would be more courteous towards those who haven’t had exposure to it before.

The norms. Cis and heteronormative, of course. Vanilla, for those of us into niche sexual practices. I want “mundanes” to become popular.

Yes, it does seem to be used mostly as a synonym for “shut up and fuck off”, and almost exclusively by the sort of middle-class, university-educated white women who make their money writing political tracts. Which is to say, people who should not be lecturing others about their privileges.

Google exists. Also it really depends on the context. On a place like the SDMB, sure, definitions are good. In a more specialized blog, it can be OK to expect people to do some research or have some understanding, first.

I’m suggesting it’s largely used for more of a “hateful parody” way. By people who think racism and sexism doesn’t exist, and if you’re not tolerant of actual nazis you’re just a bad person, clearly all those terrible “social justice” people are evil. Not to say it isn’t used otherwise, it came from somewhere, but it’s overplayed.

It’s worth noting, however, there really are some conversations people shouldn’t participate in. Not everything has to involve you or be about you. I think we have a problem remembering that sometimes because in so many ways, society pretty much does try to cater to straight white guys to an insane degree. Sometimes people are allowed to have discussions that don’t involve us. I have seen too many people try to butt into conversations with “Well what about MY feelings?”.

You need a new schtick.

The problem with labels is definitions. We need labels, because we identify differences in groups and we need a way of discussing those differences, but the issues arise when we can’t agree on differences, or there’s implications or offenses rolled into the label.

The thing is, we all label ourselves in some ways when we see differences from the norm. So, in general, I don’t really see the need to give an overarching label to the majority norm, primarily because it creates an opportunity for that label to get whatever connotations any other label get, and in a lot of cases it can lead to confusion. For instance, as mentioned upthread, the first time I saw “cisgendered” I had no clue what it meant, more confusingly, based on the construction, I assumed it was some other intermediate type of gender that I hadn’t heard about.

So in that way, I do have labels that I assign to myself that are in common usage, but they’re in ways that are a clear minority or at least not a large majority. But in ways that I’m along with the overwhelming majority, it seems odd. I can identify with being those things because it helps set me a part and it makes me part of a community that isn’t just like everyone else. But I’m also a straight white male, so I don’t feel any particular identity in being white or with being straight. In most situations, if it’s not something I’d even ever think about myself, because it’s stuff that makes me more like the majority, it doesn’t help identify me to anyone.

And by a similar token, there are some established labels that, while they technically fit me, I avoid because of the connations that I understand are associated with them and I don’t feel fit me. In those cases, I will make my own label for them and I’ll make sure to try to define those for people as I use them. And that’s how I’ll use them for other people as well. I’ll try to use the label I think is appropriate, and if it bothers you, give me a better one, and I’ll try to use it.

But there’s also taking labels too far. To use a more neutral example, if I want to discuss some of my favorite bands with someone I’ve never met and they ask what kind of music they play, it’s almost certainly meaningful to say to them that they’re “rock” or “metal” or whatever. Maybe if they’re a bit more familiar, I might say “progresive rock” or “death metal” or the like. But if I say that they’re “Finnish Post-Black Symphonic Melo-Death” that means nothing to anyone who isn’t already intimately familiar with the scene, and possibly not much to even most people who are. It’s so overly specific as to be useless in conveying any useful information in most circumstances. So it’s really important to be aware of how labels are used and who the audience is. Part of the problem, I think, with label usage is not understanding how the audience receives it. Like it or not, to most people, things like sexuality and gender are considerably more simple concepts to them precisely because they’re in an overwhelming majority and creating overly specific labels just confuses matters. To a lot of people, the list of labels outlined by Una, while completely reasonable and understandable by people with a certain level of familiarity with that community, it’s something that needs to be pared down when discussed to a larger audience that probably has little or no familiarity with that community.
Beyond all that, it seems like most of this arises from the idea that calling the majority normal is offensive to people that aren’t part of that group. Honestly, I really don’t understand this. All it should imply is that you’re in a minority group which, by assigning a label to that group and using it, you’re implicitly acknowledging. Sure, there’s a human nature of those who are like us are good and those who aren’t are bad, but I don’t think the idea of ignoring the idea that there is, in fact, an overwhelming majority does anything but worsen the problem by drawing further divides. Speaking for myself, there’s plenty of ways that I’m far from normal, but they’re part of what gives me my identity, and even if some or even a lot of other people think it’s a bad thing, why should I care? The only time I can think is if it’s actual policy being made, but that’s not something that making more labels will fix, it’s something that showing those policymakers that your minority group isn’t a threat will do a lot better.

Don’t apologize; I agreed with you. I just was bemoaning that overall, I and my sisters are not pleased with the evolution of terms. But it’s also not something which keeps me up at night.

Try Googling it. I guarantee the results have absolutely nothing to do with the way the word is used in these communities, only the dictionary definition.

Right; but I couldn’t determine the meaning from context, that was exactly my problem.

Ok well now I’m confused again. So what does it mean?

If they want to tell me to shut up and go away, they can do so using words everybody understands. (Such as: “shut up and go away”.)

The definitions are a little fluid. Transgender basically means “does not conform to social norms in their gender identity or expression,” which is why crossdressers and drag queens/kings feel they fit in. Except that their expression is done on a temporary basis…

Transsexual refers to a person who is “actively trying to change their physical, legal, and/or social gender on a continuous, permanent basis.”

A crossdresser in an evening gown will want you to call them “she” and “her” while in dress, but they will tell you that “I’m really just a guy.” Whereas a transwoman will tell you “I’m a girl” no matter what they are wearing on the outside.