He could have curled up in a ball, waited, and then complied. Getting up was an excuse to keep whacking him.
As far as the police go, they weren’t using the batons to subdue, they were beating him like a drum (IMO). If they wanted to subdue him then a strait poke in the stomach would have taken the wind out of him long enough to cuff him.
No, bad idea. A baton blow to the stomach is capable of causing serious or even fatal injury but a relatively small amount of pain or immobilization.
You want to hit somebody on the shoulder blades, the elbows, the wrists, the knees, the shins, and the ankles. These are extremely painful and disabling targets which are, however, unlikely to cause any fatal injuries.
I disagree. The stomach is not a vital organ but is dense with pain receptors. it doesn’t take much force to cause a reaction.
Kidneys, on the other hand, are the organ of choice if you want someone down for the count and don’t care if you cause medical issues.
How’d that work out for Rodney?
No offense, but have you had a lot of experience hitting people with batons?
yes. I have the training and can demonstrate it upon request. But that doesn’t tell you anything relevant so I’ll preface it with information you should have at hand. If you’ve ever been in a fight as a kid you will understand how painful a punch in the stomach is as well as the non-invasive long term affects of such a blow.
Your training and experience apparently was different than mine.
I’m not sure what’s in the back of your mind but You can do whatever you want with any weapon. I’ll give you that. I just pointed out that it was possible to use the baton to actually drop Rodney and not beat the stuffing out of him for sport. From my perspective it’s a function of energy management. It lakes almost no effort to effectively poke someone in the stomach. You’re cutting the surface contact area by 2/3’s when using a baton versus a fist. Put another way, the lbs per square inch goes up when using the baton which means you only need 1/3 of the force to deliver the same energy.
There are a lot of ways to make people compliant but for some reason they aren’t taught to law enforcement agencies.
I thought you just posted you had received this training yourself? So how are you saying it isn’t being taught?
There are specific ways to take down individuals depending on the extent of the threat that individual may pose.
I have seen 140 lb young (compared to me) women take down 200lb prisoners who were stone sober, distressed and bent upon harm others or themselves.
One drunk male is not very capable of making effective defensive judgements, and is a far better proposition to deal with. What we have here is quite a number of law enforcement officers with not much clue, we have a number of them pretty much intervening only to contribute to a beating, not to immobilise or even to make an arrest.
Proper physical intervention is as much about self protection and protection of the subject, and no time could I see this taking place. We regularly have to make interventions, we don’t have tasers or firearms, and usually batons are not extended, in fact use of movement restriction with batons has to be justified in every single incident, use of force in every case is also subject to post event oversight and scrutiny.
There was no leadership in the Rodney King arrest whatsoever, and that as much as anything is what led to the beating.Not one of those law officers used the proper equipment they have available for this sort of activity, other than the taser - which they relied upon exclusively to immobilise their man, they didn’t even follow up the taser shot properly - which show a startling lack of competence.
When taser is deployed the idea is to follow it up extremely quickly whilst the subject is still trying to recover, in this case, not so much.
As an example of training this was a superb example of what not to do - which was mainly a case of half measures and lack or proactive measures, they pretty much left the initiative up to the subject, I hope you can understand what is wrong with that and perhaps even realise this could have been dangerous to both the officers and the subject.
Force must be applied proportionally, quickly, effectively. Its not how hard you go in, its all about what you do and how you do it.
Different from mine as well. He’s being coy, so I’m guessing he had some instruction with sticks at a martial arts school.
I’m not in law enforcement. I asked the same question to acquaintances in law enforcement. I don’t understand it either.
Thisis another Rodney King style video. I suspect there are many similar videos showing the same “whack-a-mole” use of batons by police. I don’t get the point. It looks like an attempt at compliance through miscellaneous pain instead of trying to evoke a specific response to pain.
The classic example of evoking a response with pain is the thumb lock. I’m not saying this is what they should have done with RK but it illustrates what I mean by using a baton to create a response.
Maybe Little Nemo is right about the potential of hurting someone. I just thought about the consequences of a stomach shot on a pregnant woman. In a world of one-size-fits all training it’s probably a bad idea to teach it to police.
If you’re not in law enforcement, why are you hitting people with batons?
If you’re muscle for a loan shark or something like that, I guess it’s true you work under different rules.
How does one hit a fellow in the stomache when he’s rolling face-down on the ground?
training in how to use a baton is not the same as using one. I’ve been trained to shoot a gun too, doesn’t mean I go around shooting people.
Although if you really want compliance, you double punch them to the temples, right?
Ontopic: I’m not expert at bludgeoning, but it seems like everyone doing their own thing that caused the problem. If one of them took charge and directed the officers to subdue him it might have gone faster.
There’s a difference between training and experience. Like you, I have been trained in how to shoot people. But I have never shot at a person.
However, we’re talking about batons not firearms. Does any of this sound familiar?
So are you now saying that you have not actually had any experience in hitting people with batons?
Because let me be clear about this. I have also had training in how to hit people with batons. And I have actually hit people with batons. On numerous occasions.