New teaser with additional footage.
Well fucking done on Desire
Well fucking done on Lucifer
Additional footage of present day Joanna Constantine sold me. Though i am sad I STILL havent seen a rock solid John C. No to Keanu for sure, and while I laugh at some CW Constantine stuff. Hes not Cockney. Johns supposed to be from Liverpool. …I just still havent seen anyone nail the character.
Holy shit the Corinthian is a good ol boy! I love the choice.
Its all so fucking well done, I can buy into it as a thing of its own. Cant wait.
Only criticism i have left is…damnit, the Librarian should just be taller then Morpheus, also nitpick:
Death: “I’ve thought about giving up.”…mmmm…noooo…I guess they are tying that into the end of the line for Morpheus way down the line but no. At that point thats just not something Death says, Like i said its a nitpick.
Another super-nitpick…just saw Gaiman say he intentionally gender-swapped Lucien.
Lucien will almost certainly be at the end of the series, and there’s a VERY thematic purpose to it looking like a boys only-club at the very end before the denouement.
I know current day, they are being kind of coy as far as gender goes and what that entails these days, but the theme of Sandman is “The King of Dreams finds he must change or die, and he makes his choice.”…and the secondary one is “What happens (At the end) when someone who has exhibited the worst traits of maleness clashes head-on with the worst traits of femaleness”
I know Im way ahead of myself.
I don’t think we need spoilers for a decades-old comic.
I disagree that Morpheus is portrayed as misogynistic. His prideful punishment of Nada is not because she is female, it’s a personal thing. He is otherwise shown as largely uncaring of any individual, he doesn’t tell Lyta what he does as a misogynistic thing, I don’t see where he singles out women particularly for his dismissiveness.
Nor do I see the Furies as “the worst traits of femaleness” - they are an embodiment of general revenge, not gender-specific. The specific revenge enacted is for a parent killing their child, not a woman losing hers.
Could you? I haven’t read it, but I’m very interested in the show.
Well i did spoilers cause we’re in a TV series thread.
Thessaly: “You don’t like women very much, do you?”
Thessaly: (After Morpheus basically ‘slams the door so hard the window breaks’) “Men.”
I have another quote rolling around in my head I can’t place i think is from The Kindly Ones to Calliope? “Lord Morpheus keeps his own council, he has little enough time for mortals and even less for our kind”
Maybe Misogyny is the wrong word, but I do still maintain that pettiness, and sending someone (Nada) to Hell because they won’t go out with you, travelling with Delirium in the waking world in the vain hope he’ll run into an ex-lover,(Thessaly) stopping talking to another lover cause they yelled at you (Calliope)…his coldness to Alianora…and the fact he lied to her when he needed her assistance “I will always love you”
I maintain the traits I have mentioned are very ‘male’. Men are bad at relationships and men are children.
And YES…again, he transforms. He tries very hard to make things right. Even for Alianora (Out of guilt though IMHO not because its the right thing to do)
Note: Re spoilers…I didn’t spoiler space all the above because they’re thematic details and not big events. Also, half those are unlikely to appear and if they do, will be changed
Fair enough - report my previous post to a mod if you want it hidden, although it’s not too spoilerish in that way. It’s too late for me to edit.
I’d say misanthropy is closer to his attitude than misogyny.
I don’t agree that this is portrayed as an aspect of Morpheus’s maleness, more of his Endlessness. Immortals are bad at relationships, immortals are immature. They are powerful and capricious beings. Gaiman is alluding to mythology, there, not gender dynamics (not that he doesn’t play with gender dynamics throughout Sandman, but Morpheus’s hubris and pettiness isn’t part of that, IMO)
Love the discussion. (No sarcasm)
Well Ill just cut down my bucketlist question to Gaiman to “Is Morpheus misogynistic” rather then try and hold a long discussion on gender dynamics between Morpheus and ‘insane primeval forces’
And yes, I was just pondering today how The Endless (Save Death and Destiny) are bulls in a china shop when it comes to us poor mortals. But thats not so much a relationship thing but more towards the capriciousness you mentioned.
For what it’s worth, Gaiman can be responsive on twitter if you want to ask him any questions. No guarantees, but I’ve seen him answer people. Actually, I think the gender dynamic discussion is the more interesting one.
It occurs to me , that Gaiman may have gender-swapped Lucien to more directly bring home some of the stuff I talked about. Perhaps throughout the series Lucienne provides sound advice which Morpheus derisively dismisses
Of course RE: Nada he honestly doesn’t know he’s done something wrong.
Someone brings up Nada and he asks “Did I handle that badly?”
Once he’s told “Yes, you fucking idiot, you did,” he takes steps to set things right.
Not just someone who brings it up, but his own family. The Endless are gathered together and Desire starts to taunt Dream over his treatment of Nada, angering him. But then Death agrees that he handled it badly, which causes him to reconsider given how much respect he has for Death. So he sets out for Hell to release Nada, setting into motion the events of Season of Mists.
I’ve seen the first 3 episodes now, I’m loving it.
Did forget how slow the beginning is, though…
I didn’t know it was out! Thanks for the bump, and now to avoid this thread entirely until I’m caught up.
[Moderating]
Now that the show is out, do we want this thread to continue for discussion with spoilers, discussion without spoilers, spoilers after some span of time, or make a new thread? If folks want to stay in this thread, I’ll edit the title accordingly.
I was about to ask the same question. And i changed the title to say it’s out.
FWIW, I’d say keep to this thread, and allow open spoilers after a week. I know it’s easier for me to only follow one thread, rather than find the new thread, scroll to the bottom to subscribe to it (making Discourse think I’ve read the whole thing), and then avoiding opening it again until I’ve finished watching.
Meh. I’d prefer a new thread–someone that wants to discuss the show now probably doesn’t want to read 150+ posts of speculation based on the trailer, they want to discuss the episodes as they occur. New thread and a link to it from here, maybe even closing this thread, would be my preference.
Chronos already knows, but I’m in favour of just continuing this thread. I purposefully didn’t put any spoilers in my last post (I don’t think the initial slowness is a spoiler)
Most of those would already have read the thread and will just skip to latest read post, surely?
