The "Say Something Nice About Bush" Thread

time for some good old ** AMERICAN SMACKDOWN**!!!

So you are saying that anyone who disagrees with your pathetic and uninformed opinions is simply out to annoy??? That they are the “enemy”?
I see, You need to work on your logic skills. Badly.
You have graciousely given me the WONDERFUL opportunity to inform you. Let me remind you before I begin this little lecture, that in America you are free to be as big an ignorant moron as you like. Enjoy your freedoms!!!

**
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Ok, are you ready???

How about the “Economy Stupid” to quote Corporal Cue-Ball himself, James Carville for the uninformed. The Economy was steadily going DOWN and the Democratically controled agency which reports on such changes in the economy, NBER (National Bureau of Economic Research) held off for months until releasing the data until AFTER the 2000 elections. Think that is the first time the NBER has done that??? Oops…the NBER, ONE month after the 92 election came out with it’s report that the economy had been expanding since March of 1991 nearly two full years before Clinton took Office, after he campaigned on “the worst economy since the Great Depression” and “tell that to the poor guy out there trying to feed his family”. Not to mention the fact that they held off on releasing that report until 7 consecutive quarters of consecutive recovery, normally these economists release that kind of finding after just 2 quarters. Kind of Partisan don’t you think? Be that as it may the Democrats widely bragged that it was Clinton Gore that had “presided over the longest economic expansion in history”, never mind the fact that they were claiming credit for an expansion that started more or less in the middle of Bush 41’S term. A flat out lie, I just can’t support an administration that will take credit through lying. “The Economy was recovering as he (Bush 41) lost the election, but people didn’t know it,” G W Bush wrote in his Memoirs. “Bill Clinton managed to convince people, I think unfairly, but none the less convincingly, that he had a plan to improve the economy but my father did not.” Remember the phrase coined by Corporal Cue-Ball? James Carville? “It’s the economy stupid,” a phrase I think VERY ironic now, knowing that they were taking credit for the policies of the previous administration, which had actually turned the economy around, midterm of Bush41. Not to mention current Democrats blaming the Bush 43 Presidency for the current economy when it has been CLEARLY demonstrated by the NBER’s own data that the economy was on a noticable downare trend a year before the Election in 2000. Oh, don’t forget the economic cost, both real and opportunity of the 911 attacks. Oh, but that is Bush’s fault too??? Uh hua…

Ok, here is some more of the posting from hell for you. How about Usama Bin Laden the “mastermind” behind 911:

You could say that bin Laden was on the radar with the Regan Bush administration, but at the time, he had not done much of anything to raise the serious alarms that should have been going off in the Clinton admin. Bin Laden did not get REALLY serious about going after Americans until Saddam started threatening Kuwait, and then invading it. For him the icing on the cake came when the US got involved with Somalia, that is when he really lost his sanity. He saw our Humanitarian efforts and our efforts to stabilize the Gov. there as further evidence that we were trying to defile all of the Muslim lands, and coupled with that and our presence in Saudi, the home of two of the most holy shrines of Islam, that he found the will to really use the network that he had built before getting his ass thrown out of his homeland (Saudi Arabia) and getting chased out of Afghanistan/Pakistan. Both further issues for fueling his hatred of the US. It was not until the “Black Hawk Down” incident in October 1993 that he realized that he could seriously impact US foreign affairs, even if he only killed a few Americans. And he realized that the current President (Clinton in case you had forgotten) had no will to deal with him or al Qaeda.
A little history…
Previously, bin Laden spent his time getting to know other Islamic extremists, and building relationships that he could trust his life to, the foundations of Al Qaida which means “the Base”. Regan/Bush had no cause to go after him. In fact, in 1984, bin Laden was still in Pakistan. While raising money from his very wealthy family members from Peshawar, Pakistan, he started setting up safe houses for Mujahedeen Freedom fighters on their way to Kabul and kept gathering up names of those he felt he could trust. As a rich civil Engineer, he built a lot of roads and bought a lot of weapons from just about everyone he could including the US when he did go into Afghanistan. He used Bin Laden (family) bulldozers and built roads and airports. He was more than happy to take the training and money and arms and supplies from the CIA even though he hates us more than anyone with the exception of Israel.
What reason on earth would Regan have to go after him??? Answer me that! He was doing EXACTLY what we wanted him to do.
It wasn’t till 1990 and Saddam started threatening Kuwait that bin Laden started to bite the hand that fed him for so long. He thought that he would gather up all the people that he had made contacts with in Afghanistan and Pakistan and go defend the Holy land, Saudi Arabia, in case Saddam decided to go that way, which was of course his intent, until the US stepped in. What really got bin Laden was the fact that the Saudi Gov. turned him down and invited the US onto Saudi soil in order to start Desert Shield and then Desert Storm. that he couldn’t take, the “infidels” invading the Holy Land. In April of 1991, after railing about the American Infidels on the Holy Lands of Saudi Arabia, and having been put under house arrest by the Saudi Gov. he schlepped his way out of the country, pulling some family strings, he went back to Pakistan and then to Afghanistan. Not finding things good there at all, there was nothing but fighting among all kinds of factions, he went to Sudan. Where he was welcomed at first. Mostly because of his money, 250 million will buy you a lot. There he built training camps, chemical weapons factories, weapons factories, explosives you name it. It was not until 1992 that two of his buddies set off a bomb in Aden Yemen in a hotel where American soldiers were staying, that al Qaeda acted directly against Americans. Only he didn’t kill any that time. Need I mention that this first real activity did not start till Dec.29, 1992? Less than a month before Clinton took office? On Feb. 26th, 1993 Ramzi Yousef carried out the al Qaeda plan to attack the WTC exploding a bomb in the basement, killing 6 Americans. The plan was actually try to topple one of the towers into the other. They failed. Those were bin Laden’s first two terrorist acts. Just how was the Regan/Bush administration involved in not getting bin Laden? While Bush 41 was in office bin Laden had committed just one terrorist attack, and that had killed no Americans. Clinton was President in Feb 1993. In late 1992 and spring 1993, bin Laden had sent Muhammad Atef, his training Director, to Somalia to plan attacks on the American soldiers there. He trained the citizens there how to fight the soldiers, armed them with grenade launchers and guns.
Now this is where Clinton’s real colors show. Clinton, in 1969 wrote a letter to Colonel Eugene J. Holmes, retired U.S. Army ROTC thanking him “for saving me from the draft.” After a withering diatribe against the American Military, and those fighting (and dying for their country but that didn’t matter to Clinton) in Viet Nam, he finished by saying that he hoped that his letter would help the colonel to “understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the Military” That little beauty of a letter came to light in the 1992 Democratic primary in New Hampshire. As President, he proved that he “loathed” the military. Just check out the budget slashing that went on during his administration.
But I digress a bit. Back to Somalia, those soldiers there, finding that they were VASTLY outnumbered requested Heavy Armor. They were turned down by the Clinton Administration. That October 1993, is when the “Black Hawk Down” story took place. 18 GI’s were killed by people trained and supplied by al Qaeda. What did Clinton do next? Pull our troops put of Somalia. Les Aspin, then Sectary of defense resigned. Score one big victory for bin Laden. Bin Laden then started slamming the Saudi Government for letting the US stay on the Holy Soil, and eventually got his Saudi citizenship stripped from him. That was in 1994. From Yemen in 1995, he had 4 Saudi terrorists explode a bomb in Riyadh, which killed 5 Americans, and two Indians. The US and Saudi then started putting pressure on Sudan to expel the bastard. That was as far as U.S. Policy went officially, publicly.
In the back alleys of international diplomacy, the offer was made by the Saudi president, Omar Hassan al-Bashir, through Mansoor Ijaz (a couple of the partners in his NY investment firm today are none other than James Woolsey, former director of the CIA, and U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. James Abrahamson, former director of President Regan’s Strategic Defense initiative) then working as a middleman deep in the Middle East, in Feb of 1996 offered an Extradition Treaty to hand him over to the Saudis who turned it down. They didn’t want him in the country. Ijaz went to the U.S. and the Clinton Admin. Turned it down as well. Even though he had killed Americans, the ringleader of the first WTC attack had been known to be one of bin Laden’s operatives. Clinton turned it down because he and others thought that they couldn’t hold him on legal grounds. Now you can say till you are blue in the face that this did not happen, but the fact of the matter is that it did. The democrats have done everything they can, from “Corporal cue-ball” (James Carville) to just about every “new left Democrat” that you can find have said that it didn’t happen. Sandy Berger and Former UN Ambassador Bill Richardson have come forth to disputing Ijaz, saying that there was no proof of this story, and that Saudi MAY have intended to act as a “go between”, but does not fly with anyone that can think straight. Saudi made it clear that they did not want the guy in Saudi Arabia, they stripped him of his citizenship for gosh sakes. The real story is much more likely that Clinton and his advisors were treating bin Laden as a criminal. Not a terrorist. They didn’t think they could hold him for trial. What rights does he have for a trial anyway??? He is not a citizen of this country!!! What right does bin Laden have guaranteed by our constitution??? NONE!!! The man was clearly an enemy combatant, had declared war on our country, and though he possessed no country, had an army willing to die for him and his beliefs. Clinton turned this offer down not just once, but FIVE times. Not only that offer, but the offer of Intel on al Qaeda and the entire network established in Sudan, from the Sudanese Government. Why did the President of Sudan do this? Because their little experiment in extreme Islam, the fanatics, and bin Laden had gotten entirely out of hand. They did not want bin Laden using their country as a base of operations opening them up to U.S Retaliation. Ijaz was meeting with Sandy Berger Sec. Def. on behalf of the Sudanese President in order to get the sanctions against Sudan lifted, which were placed because of that little experiment gone wrong. They wanted bin Laden out. On April 5th, 1997, Ijaz sent a letter to Lee Hamilton, the then ranking Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, offering to let the FBI come to Sudan to review the Sudanese gov. information on bin Laden. He, Ijaz, got no response. On June 10th 1997 Ijaz testified before the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, describing ways to work with Sudan to hunt down terrorists and make them pay. This was FOUR YEARS before 9/11!!! Keep in mind that Ijaz is a Democrat and a donor to the Party. Ijaz has stated publicly in an Op-ed piece in the LA Times that “as I argued with Clinton and Berger then, that their counter-terrorism policies fueled the rise of bin Laden from and ordinary man to a Hydra-like monster.” “The silence of the Clinton Administration in responding to these offers was deafening,” he said.
Now having said all of that, are you really going to sit and tell me that Clinton is NOT responsible, at least in part for the rise of bin Laden, now that you know the history of those involved? Granted, I am giving only a thin skin deep description of the histories here, but you can do the research for yourself. It is all in print. I am not saying that Clinton created bin Laden; only that he did not stop him, or even slow him down at all. In fact, it made it possible for bin Laden to become what he is today, and allow him to create the horror that was 911.
If you want to believe the Leadership of The Democratic Party, Tom Daschle foremost among them as Senate Majority Leader, who vociferously defends Clinton and his Foreign policies, then I suggest you read up on that loser as well. Did you know that he has, every time a vote came up, voted to downsize our military, and even voted against the “Resolution to use Force” that lead to Desert Storm and the War in Iraq? Did you know that at the time Desert Storm started that Saddam was MONTHS away from having a WORKING Nuclear Bomb??? That comes from the former head of Saddam’s Nuclear program who defected. If we had not defended the freedom of Kuwait, Saddam would likely control more than 60% of the WORLD oil reserves??? Because he had stated that Saudi was next. Moved troops that way after securing Kuwait. I do not like to think of what would have happened to the world economy if that had occurred, and still the Democratic leadership fights going after Iraq. I just do not get it. They squawk and posture about the war in Afghanistan! Look, just how much more serious does it need to get for the Democratic party leadership to see that there are Terrorists and Psychos with Armies out there that hate us, hate our way of life, and have vowed to kill us at every and any opportunity??? How many Americans, how many people in general, have to DIE before the Democratic Party stops attacking the policies that are literally protecting ALL OF US, our borders, our allies, our way of life, our freedom to write novels on message boards on the internet, you name it??? And you know what, at the bottom of this, Bush and the Republican Party are not out there hacking at Clinton’s policies. They are going about correcting it. Everyone who wants to know knows where the blame lies. The information is out there in the press for anyone who wants to take the time to read it. Not Spin articles, not he said she said crap. But factual information. Times, dates, quotes, records, the truth is out there. The Republican Party is about getting the Job done, nailing bin Laden’s ass to the wall if he isn’t already dead yet, and dropping Saddam off on a crowded street in one of his own cities, for his “public” to tear him apart, a fate that he has stated, he knows awaits him if he ever loses his grip on power. Everything else is the Democrats covering their asses, and trying to get the White House, Senate and House back under their control and they are doing that by trying to distract the public from what really happened, what IS happening, and what they are really all about. Attack the Republicans and Bush, change the issues to the economy, what ever it takes to make them look incompetent, distract the public with rhetoric, spin, what ever it takes, and it sure as hell isn’t doing a damn thing to protect the United States of America and her citizens. It is dividing us, and that is ALL the democrats are accomplishing.
We should be UNITED in this fight, against Terrorism, against Saddam. We have a common enemy, more than one in fact. What is at stake isn’t just Oil, or money, or even power. What is at stake is our very way of life. The Freedoms that our Constitution gives us. And our belief in those freedoms. Now, I ask you, Do you love your freedom? Do you love your family? Way of life? You’re RIGHT to disagree with me, and those who think like I do? Do you believe in those freedoms? If your answer is yes, then you MUST support our President, our Military, and their cause, OUR cause. We are all Americans; we all face the same threat, our FREEDOM. The very fact that you may disagree with me is the only argument you need to make for this!! Because they are fighting FOR our very freedom to do this!!!

I have to list some of the sources that opened my eyes. I do not think I have quoted them directly, but the information I got there allowed me to check and verify the facts and believe me, mine eyes have been opened!! If I did, my apologies, I don’t mean to step on copyrights at all. First, the book, “the Threatening Storm” by Ken Pollack; “Fighting Back” by Bill Sammon. And by no means least if last, “let Freedom Ring” by Sean Hannity. These three books changed forever how I view both the world and our two main Political Parties and their members.
Any other questions???

Sincerely,
Danae

My Og, is Justthink back?

Yeah. What was brevity the soul of, again?

I mean, Ben Franklin, there was a guy who could pull the American Smackdown. You’re no Ben Franklin.

Daniel

Originally posted by Danae
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Do they let you use pencils in the asylum or is it just the big fat crayons?

You tell me. Never been to one. Didn’t you READ what is in that post???

Danae, our job as the reader is to evaluate the strength of what you say. Your job as the writer is to make that possible. Your post is so longwinded and incoherent that I’ll wager nobody read the whole thing.

Learn the value of conciseness. When come back, bring pith.

Daniel

You Go, Danae!!! :smiley:

Really??? I am not??? Oh and I just thought being a woman would knock me out of the running for that…I have never claimed to be Ben Franklin but thank you for the attempt at a comparison.

Would you like to comment on the SUBSTANCE of the post, or is that the best you can do ya’all? Daniel? Binary??
Come on people, let’s have a REAL discussion of facts. If all you can do is gripe and attempt to insult, well, just keep in mind what that says about YOU.

Sincerely,
Danae
(Greek Goddess of Spring in case you are curious)

PS, I do not know who “Justthink” is. I am pretty new to this board. Scylla got my attention with the Bilmp article, that’s what got me here.

He’s working on getting ANWR opened.

(fingers crossed).

REALLY??? Funny, I thought the first duty of a reader… was to READ!! You might try it before making a fool of yourself again. Just a pithy little hint.

I hate to tell you this but sometimes telling the facts means telling the facts, not putting your spin on it just to make it sound “pithy”, or trying to shove it into a 6 second sound-bite. Try reading some books on the subject at hand then we will talk again. Some of the subject matter deals with the deaths of thousands of people, that is a serious subject, it and THEY deserve NOTHING LESS than SERIOUS conversations about it.

Sorry you disagree, but let’s just stick to the point. You wanted evidence of the Mistakes Clinton made while in office and I just gave you a whole cart load of them, and the best you can do is complain about a lack of “pith”??? :rolleyes: AAALLLLLRRRRIIIITY then…:smack:

Danae

Yeah! Gosh, I remember the press coverage when the Rhodes Scholarship was offered to GWB twice and he said “No, thanks, I’m holding out for something better.”

They don’t make them like they used to.

Oh, and Danae, what you have is not American Smackdown, but you have the makings of American Bandstand with all the dancing you’re doing.

Around the facts.

Look, I will try to be sincere here. The basic deal is this: The only time that I am going to read something as long and boring as what you posted is when I am being graded on it. This is not to say that I did not skim what you wrote, but with something of that nature is becomes nothing short of ceaseless droning.

I get the general gist of your post: Democrats=bad and Republicans=good, but beyond that, most of what you say can be seen as very open to interpretation.

As a rule of thumb, from the more or less average dude point of view, I can tell you that under Regan/Bush/Bush II things seem to be getting steadily worse both socially and economically, and under Clinton they seemed to be getting better.

On a final note, notice how my paragraphs have spaces between them? This is a nice idea as it gives the eyes time to rest, and gives the reader a better idea of where one idea ends and another begins.

Naturally YMMV.

Oh, and Danae, what you have is not American Smackdown, but you have the makings of American Bandstand with all the dancing you’re doing.

Around the facts. **
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Really??? You think so eh??? Then call it “Smack down of FACTS” Just for you honey dear. I can list the published sources for the information I gave. In fact, I DID. Can you list off any that refute them? If not then you are blowing sunshine up your own ass. Must make it easier for you to see. Tell me, just how is Dick?:wally

D

And, not to come of as a total prick (assuming that it is not too late) a hearty welcome to the SDMB!

Hey, the question was asked, what problems are left over from the Clinton Administration for the Bush 43 admin after two years in office to deal with them. I gave just a few. Now if you have a problem with FACTS, and facts that can not only be confirmed by SEVERAL sources, that is YOUR problem.

Don’t want to read a long post?

Well then I guess you really do have AN excuse for coming off as an ignorant American when you can’t be bothered to read a long post LET ALONE A BOOK. Too bad you have to be graded on a subject in order to find the modivation to EDUCATE yourself Binary. No wonder you post as you do.

Funny, I thought this site was called “StraightDope” I posted about as straight as it can get. Nevermind it completely smashes your opinions to bits, you better knock the length of it since you can’t knock any of the other facts.

Oh, and Binary, you are not coming off as a total prick. Just ignorant. But no harm done. At least to anyone but you that is.

D

I think Danae is my new hero!!! :stuck_out_tongue:

As far as Bush going against public opinion, Last I checked the polls said that over half of the American public supports Bush on Iraq. That number may have dwinded, but it’s STILL OVER HALF.

And even if the numbers fall below 50% hewould still fight to protect the American people. He’s not one to let poll numbers dictate policy.
:cool:

Well, on that front I guess that I would suggest that you read some more of my posts before you decide that I am ignorant, or that you have arrived on the scene and somehow smashed all of my opinions to bits. For that matter, I really have to take exception to you calling me ignorant.

See, the thing is this. I tried to give you an honest and (I hope) polite explanation as to why so many of the folks were making it clear that they had not read your post. Take that as you will.

And hell, I have no doubt that Bush II had some negative effects of Clinton’s to clean up. As Clinton did from Bush I and Reagan. That is probably just the nature of the job. However, if that diatribe of a post was “posting as straight as it can get”, than I must say that I look forward with amusement to the responses that you will no doubt receive here.

[Cheap shot based on election]
For that matter, we all know how well numbers under 50% have served Bush before…
[/Cheap shot]

Nor common sense or international law, apparently.

I would JUST like to say THAT I think I’M going to start randomly CAPITOLIZING words in all OF my posts too. IT’s fun, and IT sure gives my PINKY a good work out.


Caution: CAPE does NOT allow user TO fly.