The SDMB Keeps Freezing- No Other Sites Do

Oh, I didn’t mean to say that you were. You did absolutely the right thing by assuming I had no knowledge of computers. For a brief period in the nineties, I worked in tech support. We once had a client who was an MD and had to have his computer repaired because he managed to shove a 3.5" disk into a 5.25" drive. It is just safer to assume somebody knows nothing until they demonstrate knowledge.

I spoke up only because it, for some reason, bugs me to have other Dopers think of me as computer incompetent.

from looking at the programs menu, the apps menu, and my add ons- I have a Malware Bytes add on for Firefox and my friend agreed with you as I seem to have only Windows Defender. I will double check to make sure Mcafee is actually gone.

If it makes you feel any better, don’t worry… it’s not even that!

I work in B2B tech support now, solving issues for other professional programmers — who you’d think knows a thing or two about computers, right? Not necessarily, lol. That applies to myself, too!

Computers, and especially the Web and web browsers and web apps like Discourse, have gotten so extremely complicated that I don’t think any one person or team fully understands all of it anymore. I think I only understand maybe 30-40% of it, and that’s with three decades of experience. By this time next year, that number will probably be down to 15-20%. The industry and technology is moving faster than any person can keep up with :frowning: — and I’m not even talking about any of the newfangled AI stuff.

I remember when Discourse was still an experimental young one-person project. Now it’s grown up and gotten more complicated and requires a small company to maintain. They add new features (and bugs) all the time on a rolling release schedule. It’s software written by 900+ people, including volunteers, and it’s inevitable that something will go wrong with some permutation of website/theme/browser/OS/computer hardware.

It’s not you at all. We are all just hapless peasants begging for scraps at the feet of our tech overlords… please, sir, pretty please, let me have my quota of forum posts today…

You probably don’t need that on top of Adblock Plus or uBlock Origin. They do very similar things and having too many can cause performance or other issues.

Firefox has a troubleshooting mode that will temporarily disable all your extensions so you can test the SDMB in a “known good” configuration: Diagnose Firefox issues using Troubleshoot Mode | Firefox Help

(But it should be the same if you just tried it with another browser). Either way it helps to further narrow down the problem through a process of elimination.

Mcafee security scan is still there. It took me a second to remember why. This version of Windows was insisting on a ‘new and improved’ feature, you have to connect to the Microsoft website to log in and use Windows. My friend was only able to get around that requirement for a user level account. To use the admin account and be able to uninstall Mcafee, I have to log in with the Microsoft website. As this may lead to many annoying things, I have been putting it off. I will do it after work today.

ETA

Thanks, but I fear any website without my add ons

(my diaresis and bolding)

Not really the topic of this thread, but if I may be indulged a mild pot-shot:

Message-board software – so far as I could tell – used to be resource-light. Used very little RAM.

Something like Discourse comes along which is resource-heavy. Yet is seems to have stripped away a lot of the features competing/older message board platforms have/had (e.g. colored text in posts). I’m curious as to just what Discourse is doing with all those resources? And what’s been the benefit to end users compared to other message board software?

That’s something you can write an entire book, or series, on. If you search back in the internet’s long memory, that exact question was being asked on forums all over the internet, and everyone will have their different answers.

For users, my TL;DR one-word answer is “dynamicness”, and by that I mean AJAX in particular. In the old days, websites ran on powerful servers that queried databases and did all the heavy data-crunching and then produced simple, light HTML pages that any computer could easily render.

Then Gmail and Google Docs showed up and suddenly everyone was like, wait, you can do all of that right in the browser instead of a desktop app like Office? That began an at-first-gradual, then suddenly explosive, fashion trend to move as much as possible into the browser, offloading work from the server and running it as a bloated Javascript app on each user’s computer instead.

In theory this means a more dynamic and “real-time” experience, like when you scroll down and the next set of posts load automatically without you having to click “next page”. In practice this creates all sorts of annoyances, like not being able to easily ctrl-F across the posts. And then Javascript itself got heavier and heavier, and browsers evolved to the point where they, not Windows, are really more the “operating system” today running websites as apps — and that’s really what they are, with hundreds of thousands of lines of code, not just document markup anymore. The desktop OS and desktop apps are becoming increasingly irrelevant. (Thankfully that is NOT the trend on mobile, where native apps are still alive and well and generally more usable than websites.)

Things like colored text were really just unintentional collateral damage that can be added to Discourse via plugin if desired (Discourse BBCode Color - Plugin - Discourse Meta), but that’s not really the resource hog.

But the reason, I think, many sites moved to Discourse was NOT for the end-user experience, but for the simpler setup and maintenance for the site and server admins. The old forums were often PHP-based, and at the time, PHP was not easy to maintain or secure or host, being the subject of both frequent attacks/security exploits and frequent changes breaking compatibility. It was a heavy “stack” to have to set up and maintain.

By the time Discourse came on the scene, they didn’t use PHP, opting instead for a mix of Ruby (a more modern, and in vogue at the time, web programming language) for the backend server and Javascript for the user-facing part of the site that you see. It is this latter part that makes Discourse “heavier” compared to a HTML page. Your browser runs Discourse as an complex app that manages its own data fetching, routing, click handling, etc., not just as an HTML page like in the old days.

Discourse was also easier to setup and administer, between helpful installation scripts, auto-updates, or in the case of the SDMB and other Discourse cloud customers, they just pay the company directly to manage all of that for them invisibly, and never have to deal with the underlying software.

Companies moved to what was easier and cheaper for them to host, without much regard to any user experience degradation that might’ve happened.

Outside of Discourse, the overall fashion trend towards browser app does make for the occasional truly interactive app that wouldn’t have been possible in the old days, like Figma.com (design), Photopea.com (photo editing), Felt.com (collaborative map-making), Airtable.com (lightweight Access clone), Canva.com (presentations) etc. But forums? They sit at that awkward boundary where either the old ways or the news ways would work. The new way is probably a little better on modern computers – arguably. But it creates more work for older computers that struggle to run the modern super-powerful and super-complex browser engines.

You can still find the old-style forums and use those if you want, but they take more setup and maintenance. And since the SDMB appears to be on life support, I don’t think you’ll have much luck convincing TPTB to move to a lighterweight forum anytime soon…

Thanks for the thoughtful, detailed reply :slightly_smiling_face:

Another pot-shot:

Dynamic scrolling is just plain lousy. I like(d) being able to easily scroll down to the bottom (and use Ctrl+F – thanks for the reminder!) of a webpage. Any webpage. Never adopted popular social media, so I never got “trained” on dynamic scrolling. Still think the Internet at its best was between the 2005 launch of YouTube and the 2008-09 popular adoption of Facebook and (a bit late) Twitter. Of course, progress continues on. Ah, well.

You can still find the old-style forums and use those if you want, but they take more setup and maintenance.

Yeah, my other two main message board haunts are both Xenforo based, which seems to have done a really good job of modernizing the old resource-light system (though I bet Zenforo is a lot heavier than, say, circa 2007 vBulletin).

You know the irony of all this? For all the fancy advancements in web tech, one of the biggest forums for computer geeks is still run on 2000s tech, on a single desktop in someone’s office, and there’s like two people who run it: https://news.ycombinator.com/

I have a love-hate relationship with that site (god, it’s so hard to tap on anything without accidentally tapping on two other things), but it’s definitely much lighter than Discourse. And the quality of conversation there is above average, despite or maybe because of the ancient look and feel.

Shrug.

Anyway, OP, sorry for the tangent. I’ll shut up now.

FWIW , I’m seeing exactly the same hitches and pauses when refreshing or scrolling down on othe Discourse fora. Even big ones like the Blizzard forums.

I think it’s either a Discourse codebase or hosting performance issue.