Doesn’t the professor kind of have a point though? I’ve lived in the south for almost 10 years now, and, frankly, the south of 30 years ago was less civilized than the rest of the country. We had government-sanctioned discrimination (Jim Crow), lynchings, lower literacy rates and educational standards than the rest of the country, etc. I don’t think it was that unfair of a statement for him to make.
The south used to be backwards and used to be run by backwards people. But the professor let his misconception of what used to be influence what the south has become. We’ve progressed a lot, even if we aren’t as far along as other places.
Okies are actually people who LEFT Oklahoma and went to California.
That’s why you talk like you do.
I grew up in Oklahoma and now live in NYC. I see a lot of tourists here in the city and if they look lost I usually try to help them out. Some are from Europe and some are from other parts of the US. People from the south always seem so intimidated by the city and I usually put on my Okie drawl to put them at ease.
I’ve written some more lately but they’re a tad more somber (though they have their less somber moments [an attempt to use a horse trailer for a hearse, for example]). I probably won’t post them but I’ll e-mail them to you if you like.
Ha…you want a good bit of irony? I grew up in Washington County making West Virginia jokes my whole lives, and just take a wild guess where I’ve been living for the past year (albeit as a PA resident)??
The truth is that it’s amazingly naturally beautiful down here in the state (yes, there really are a hell of a lot of mountains around here), and the people certainly don’t live up to “the stereotype” and in fact have been really kind people.
This thread reminds me of a joke I just heard today:
Why is it so hard to solve murders in the South?
Their DNA is all the same and there are no dental records!
Just kidding, of course. 
But that’s the point. The professor was talking about how the south “used to be,” not how it is now. You yourself said it used to be uncivilized.
Well, bless your heart! That was never mentioned throughout my 12 years (plus 1 uni so far) in the California school system 
Oh me! Send them to me please. I am a huge fan. (I tend to lurk in your threads and enjoy the tales)
Fair enough. I took it as a condescending comment meant to denegrate his surroundings. If a guy wants to start a conversation about about unjust policy making and the treatment of minorities and women in the Post-Reconstruction South, that’s fine. It is perhaps even an engaging dinner conversation.
I think Sampiro’s reaction was understandable, however. He hasn’t lived here, he may or may not have family who have lived here during these intervening decades of urbanization and “civilization.” It sounds pompous to walk in and pop off a few preconceived ideas about southern culture when his experience is purely academic.
Also, “uncivilized” is not the proper word. I chose poorly when I said “backwards,” as you pointed out. The south is Rural. While one can point to communities of hillbillies and those toeing poverty as possibly, maybe uncivilized, I rather think it’s a matter of differing culture. I sometimes think living in a big, crowded, noisy city with people rushing about like ants is uncivilized.
I think it would be rude of me to espouse generalizations about big city life in front of its natives who understand and live its culture. Also, I wouldn’t want to get punched in the kidneys by some mongoloid in a Giants jersey.
Robot Arm, I think that you misunderstand several things.
Many Southerners don’t consider Atlanta particularly “successful.” It’s just big and has nightmarish traffic problems. I’m sure there are lots of folks who live there who love it, but many of us try to avoid it except when making airline connections.
That is so hard for me to relate to at all. I am sixty-two years old and I’ve lived in Tennessee all of my life. I’ve never been to a NASCAR race. I don’t know anyone who has been to a NASCAR race or at least no one has mentioned it. I also don’t like country music as a whole. I’ve lived in Nashville for forty years and I’ve never been to the Grand Ole Opry or listened to a broadcast.
My idea of Southern culture relates more to a love of history, irony, story-telling, cousins, piano, recipes, humor, language, languidity, endurance, and genetic quirkiness.
We don’t feel inferior in any way. But we are quick to recognize comments that let us know that others hold stereotypes that aren’t quite up to snuff.
Mecca…
If you have never read Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, then you will have quite a romp! (The movie doesn’t provide all of the fun.) It’s a true story set in Savannah, my favorite Southern city.
People with open minds and a spirit of fun are always welcome!
And here I thought Vermont was solidly in the North!
If I like? Would the fact that I’m sitting here drooling on my keyboard over the prospect of more Sampiro stories indicate that I’d like? 
Oh yeah! Send em on!
Never read it, and I found the movie disappointing and colorless.
The short-lived American Gothic is definitely my favorite tv show.
Out of an honest curiosity, how do Southern folks explain the higher rates of violent crime and murder that are found in the South than elsewhere in the country?
And to be a bit more argumentative:
Couldn’t one make a fair argument that higher rates of violent crime and murder help to support a characterization of “less civilized”?
Are they higher if you control for socioeconomic status? I would tend to doubt it, but I don’t know for certain.
I don’t give a toss for the socioeconomic status. A poor man’s knife will kill me as fast as a bum’s club or a rich man’s rifle.
Well I’ll grant you the lower literacy rates, but there were no Jim Crow laws or lynchings in the South of 30 years ago. (Lynchings in 1975??)
My 70s upbringing in the small-town South was, I gather, not that different from the 70s upbringing of folks in other parts of the country. Shag carpeting, Scooby Doo, polyester clothes, disco, avocado appliances, the Brady Bunch on Friday nights. It all seemed reasonably civilized (though maybe a little lacking in taste).
You’d have to go back over 40 years to find Jim Crow segregation (before the Civil Rights Act of 1964) and more like 60-80 years to find any significant number of lynchings. In no way am I defending that aspect of Southern history, but it is just that: history. Most Southerners today have no living memory of that time.
There are much higher incidents percentagewise of hate crimes in NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc., than there are in Andalusia, Opp, Ramer, Gulf Shores and Montgomery Alabama. Would this mean that those cities are less civilized than much smaller Alabama towns?
Much of the violent crime in the south, as with elsewhere in the country, is related to drugs (marijuana and meth labs having long since replaced moonshining as the illegal industry of choice). Most violent crime, again as with other regions, is confined to the lowest rings of socioeconomic status.
Speaking of socioeconomic status, a chance to correct a misconception that bugs me that I’ve seen on these boards and elsewhere (and that I blame largely on Jeff Foxworthy): REDNECK is not synonymous with WHITETRASH. It’s not even a fine-line; there’s an ocean of distinction.
Rednecks are hardworking, productive people (male and female) who happen to like most or all of the following: trucks (the bigger the better), sports (especially college football), deer hunting, fishing, NASCAR, beer, pool tables, line dancing, country music, whiskey, fried meat, country vegetables, cornbread, Elvis, etc… Though mostly working class, they can be found on all rungs of the socioeconomic ladder from the most run down trailer parks to the boards of Fortune 100 companies. They are moral, obey the laws (except perhaps for speed limits), pay their taxes, and take care of their homes (which they usually own). You don’t have to worry when rednecks move in next door.
Rednecks may or may not be religious, college educated or racist, though if they are the latter it’s not the crossburning variety but the instilled separatism of the south. I am not a redneck (though I do like fishing, Elvis and southern food), but my father was and my brother-in-law is.
White Trash are rarely hardworking, rarely productive people who dont’ respect the rights of others, don’t respect themselves, are abusive to their families and anybody else, tend to find themselves in jail a lot, make terrible employees and worse neighbors, have no problems with making a public scene, often have substance abuse problems, limited interest in hygiene, morals, good parenthood or property maintenance, practice incest to an alarming degree, smoke and drink while pregnant, often abuse welfare and account for 99% of Southerners on talk-shows and COPS episodes. They are usually poor as well (though poor DOES NOT in and of itself grant whitetrash status- I have often been broke, I have never been whitetrash) though you can find them in limited doses on all rungs of society. Examples of rich whitetrash include (Kentucky hillbilly) Larry Flynt and Eminem.
The good news about whitetrash as a social caste is that you can work your way out of it. Many do this through the military or throught hardwork and education and distancing themselves from their family (who of course they usually still love). You’ll rarely meet a more snobbish and classist person than one who was born whitetrash but who now has a Mazda and a 401K. This class (of whom I’ve known several) can also be a sad class due to their combined love and shame of the people from their background.
In To Kill a Mockingbird, the Ewell family was whitetrash. The family (I can’t remember the surname) who paid Atticus in nuts and whose little boy covered his roast beef with syrup, while not a lot richer if any than the Ewells, was redneck.
Many of Foxworthy’s “You might be a redneck” jokes (such as the “come take a picture before I flush this” and “if your Mama doesn’t take the cigarette from her mouth when telling the state trooper to kiss her ass”) are actually whitetrash. Living in mobile homes is really a non-factor in whether somebody is whitetrash or redneck as it’s far more a matter of norms and mores.