The Straight Dope Super Double Secret Clique... Lets just get it out in the open.

The BBQ Pit
1

Fuck all the arguing regarding the Straight Dope Clique. (or Cabal, or in crowd, whatever you want to call it.) There isn’t a clique. There are many cliques. Before you all get set to flame me for this, hear me out.

For instance, there is the Chat Clique. You guys are in #straightdope (Not affiliated with The Chicago Reader, of course) most nights. You all know each other, you discuss your personal problems, flirt, have mindless chatter, basically, you hang out together. On the Boards, you are always around the same threads, use first names, and back each other up during big arguements. None of these are bad things, but they do intimidate new members. Even thought you don’t mean to intimidate, you do.

Another clique is the Oldtimer Clique. These tend to be members who belonged to the AOL board, or joined here late 1999, early 2000. Usually you have a high post count. What I often hear from this group is that the boards aren’t what they used to be. These complaints usually come at the expense of a newer member. Well, guess what? The SDMB isn’t what it was in 1999. It has grown, in large part to the tradition that you Oldtimers began. That tradition was being extremely freindly and helpful to new members, and making the SDMB more than just another message board on the net. Its not going to go back to the small board it once was, just be happy that you were able to be in at the start, and you started a good thing.

I chose these two cliques to use these two cliques as examples because I go to #SD, so I know what its like on both sides of the group, and while my registration date is Oct 2000, I lurked for nearly a year before joining, and know the board history. They weren’t picked to single anyone out. I figure if I can identify with them, I’m using myself as an example.

If you are in a clique, you probably don’t realize it. But those on the outside of your group of friends see it. It is scary for the average newbie to see jokes about feltching, munging, JDT, or any other thing we talk about in Doper language. Not all newbies are trolls, some just take a while to catch on to what the SDMB is all about.

If you are a newbie, deal with the fact that there are cliques. Basically, if you aren’t a jerk, and you like it here, you’ll find your place here. We are a friendly bunch. Just don’t jump into the pit within your first few posts unless you can handle getting called names.

The final thing I want to say is this. I know I don’t get my point accross well in long posts like this. I hope anyone reading this doesn’t think I’m trying to single any one person or group out, because I’m not. These are just my observations. Also, don’t ask me for cites, because I’m not going to point any one Doper out for anything.

2

So where’s the beef? Where’s the rant here? You put this in the Pit so you could say “fuck” in your opening line?

3

Sorry, but I don’t think there are cliques, in the sense that cliques are usually considered exclusionary groups. Just because people are friends doesn’t mean there is a clique. I hang out in #straightdope, and I consider some of the people there friends. Some I don’t particularly like, and some probably don’t like me much. So am I in a sub-clique? If #straightdope were a true clique, then I wouldn’t have grown to feel comfortable and welcome there, would I?

I attend a lot of fests, but this doesn’t make me part of a dopefest clique. It just means I have met a fair amount of dopers IRL and have had opportunities to become friends with more. I especially attend a lot of ChiDopes, since I happen to live there, but there is no ChiDope clique. There are some people who are close friends, some people who are casual friends, some people who are just nodding acquaintances, and some people who probably don’t like each other much. But I’ve never seen anyone excluded at a ChiDope.

4

The general consensus amongst my clique is that your points are salient and well-reasoned. Pursuant to this, we are unable to mount a coordinated flame attack on you at this juncture. Please respond with a rant, or at the very least, some vitriol or a spelling error.

5

What I think blur was trying to say was very succintly put. There ARE cliques here, just not the type that you’re referring to. Re-read his second and third paragraph. He specifically did NOT name names. Neither will I, but there ARE certain posters whose arguments will almost always be followed by a post from someone that always seems to agree with them regardless of the topic. There are also posters that have been here since the beginning that do display a sense of “ownership” when it comes to the board.

To me, those are cliques and it IS intimidating to newbies.

6

There isn’t really a beef with a particular person, but I can’t see this fitting in another forum. Its not a GQ, or a GD thread. I thought of MPSIMS or IMHO, but any mention of cliques seems to break down into flames.

And not only is there a “fuck”, but mention of feltching and munging.

7

This is about me, isn’t it? You’re always after me, you and your horde of minions! Dammit, where’s the justification for this attack? Where’s a cite or a link? I won’t take this lying down! (There’s some things I take lying down, but not this!)

Anyway, delusions of persecution aside, I’m going to agree with porcupine. While there are groups of people here who are friends off the boards through the chatroom or e-mails or IRL that may look like a clique at first glance, I never seen any of these groups be exclusive. The chatters don’t make fun of the non-chatters. The St. Louis people don’t deride the Chicago people (except the Cubs fans, but that’s not board-related ;)).

None of these groups I’ve seen will deny someone friendshhip for not being in the group, and I’ve always thought of that as being a clique.

8

:shrug:

Birds of a feather…

9

I can assure everyone here that I wouldn’t belong to any clique that would have someone like me for a member. And really, who cares? And can you have a secret clique? I thought the sociological point to a clique was to rub it in the faces of people the clique subconsciously feels inferior too.

10

Y’know, in every thread that mentions cliques, I look to see if any names are mentioned. Sometimes I ask for names. Nobobdy has ever posted any specifics.

So, blur, who are in the cliques? Can you tell me 3 names of people who are in the #sd clique? Can you tell me the names of 3 old-timers that exude a sense of “ownership?”

I don’t necessarily think you are wrong when you state, “If you are in a clique, you probably don’t realize it. But those on the outside of your group of friends see it.” I have never noticed any cliques here, but I could just be extraordinarily dense.

Basically, I’m saying “put up or shut up.” If you are going to argue for the existence of cliques, then you have to offer us some evidence.

11

I don’t think there are any cliques (agreeing with Crunchy’s analysis). I mean, it’s not like newbies are forbidden from becoming valid members of the board or anything like that.

But I do see how it can be perceived that way. A lot of times, I come into a thread and find that Fenris has written a song about it, and DDG has found about 20 cites for it already, and someone or other has already taken my witty bon mot, and I just kind of exit stage left (note the wicked low post count/registration date. And I was lurking WAY before then, too.) But I really am not complaining – what, all you guys stop being so damn conscientious and intelligent and amusing already? Not a good argument. But a new poster could definitely be frustrated by this, I would think.

At the same time, new posters tend to get ganged up on for violating board rules. Old posters do too, but I think that the perception generally is that old posters are having a bad day and new posters are trolls. However, I think that most of the new posters kind of “fly under the radar” so to speak and don’t actually run into this problem. I guess most frustrating for me is that the quickest way to get attention as a new poster is to be an absolute nutcase (think phi or asteroids). If there was some regular thread called “Best up-and-coming-poster” (in the Pit, of course) I think that might do a lot to assuage the constant cries of “clique”!

12

You make some excellent points. I used the term Clique because that is the term I usually see used by people who feel excluded or picked on here. I used #SD as an example because at first I didn’t feel comfortable there, but after sticking around, people have been very cool.

Fear not, for I am the king of coding errors. I can almost promise that I’ll make some mistake and the dreaded Spelling, Coding and Grammar Clique will be able to come to your rescue. :slight_smile:

13

I’ve said the same thing before, except I didn’t make a whole thread about it.

There’s the flirty folk, the policy wonkers, the science geeks, the creationists vs evolutionists, the liberal gang and the conservative mob. They interact often with each other. They know each other and have inside jokes.

And it all may look intimidating. Especially when you don’t know what you’re talking about. If a newbie jumps into the middle of a flirtfest and calls everyone oversexed sickos, or a discussion about gravity to say that gravity is just “a theory” and so therefore has not been proven-- they are surprised when these “clique members” hand them their asses.

There is no secret handshake. There are no initiation rites. There is no behind the scenes agenda making (unless you’re a mod or an admin-- they’re the real clique) The way to join a clique is to post.

14

I agree with you, Green Bean. OOOpppss does that make us a clique? This is bullshit. What you have is a message board that has extended into real life where some members have become IRL friends also.
As far as the chat group goes, well I go into chat on rare occasions and I’ve always been greeted in a friendly manner by just about everyone. The only reason I don’t go in more often is that the west coast guys get in there too late for me, I’m on the east coast and on workdays I have to get up at 3:30 a.m. so I retire early.
Am I a member of a clique? No. I have a 1999 register date, not an unusually high post count for the length that I’ve been on the boards, and there’s not a single person that comes to mind that I couldn’t carry on a conversation with on the board and not be comfortable with.
Normally the people on the board that have a problem with so called ‘cliques’ do so because they don’t seem to fit anywhere on the board so that’s their excuse.

15

Actually, I’ll pony up and admit to doing this. I don’t know if I “exude” anything, but after posting on occasion, in retrospect I’ll feel a bit over-protective of the boards and afraid I come off as bossy, though I don’t mean to be at the time.

Most of these posts of mine include somewhere the line: “I am not a mod, but…”

16

Anyone want to start a “Stays up too late Dopin and listening to music when they should be sleeping because they have to get up real early” Clique with me? It’ll be fun. We’ll get drunk and stay up all nite at internet cafe’s dancing and typing. We’ll mock those who don’t join us and agree with each other on everything. Pre-register now for a membership discount when we switch to the old Pay-To-Be-In-The-Clique rules for new wannabe’s.

DaLovin’ Dj

17

I’m definitely not a member of any clique.

My posts barely get noticed, as I’m a “newbie” who’s desperately trying to get “in”; whatever that really means.

I’m like that guy at a party that everyone asks each other, while turning their back and lowering their voice, “Who’s that guy? Who brought him? I don’t know him, so let’s not talk to him…”

Oh, well. I guess you can think of me as the fat guy who you see in the stands, shirt off, painted half black and half gold, spilling beer (diet coke in my case,) screaming and dancing when Jerome scores.

Do I feel intimidated by the cliques? No, I don’t begrudge friendships and mutual distrust relationships. I enjoy reading about all of it. I do feel ignored, though. I may be inviting the vitriol of those who would deem it necessary to attack me “because I posted in the Pit” or “the post count is not high enough” or “Steeler fans suck”; but what will probably happen is this post will be skimmed over and ignored.

I can speak only for myself in this regard.

18

Won’t somebody pleeeeeease name names?

(And outing yourself doesn’t count!)

[sub]Hiya Steelerphan! Howareya? How’s the wife and kids? Do you live in the Pgh area? Been to Primanti’s lately?[/sub]

19

Cliques was obviously the wrong word, but its easier to type than “groups of people who hang out online becaue they have many things in common.”

Sorry, I’m like I said in the OP, I’m not naming names. This wasn’t started as a personal attack on anyone, and I’m not going to turn it into one.

Taking someones side in a disagreement doesn’t make you a clique, I think we are all adult enough to realize that.

Where did I say I had a problem with the “groups of people who hang out online becaue they have many things in common”? While I acknowledge they exist, one of the things that makes SD a cool place is that you have all those groups. I like knowing that if I start a thread about baseball, Crunchy is likely to come to it. (Wow, I guess this does revolve around you Cruncy. Who knew.) Baseball is a simple example, but plug in any topic you want, and you know who will show up.
Like I said in my OP:

**If you are a newbie, deal with the fact that there are cliques. Basically, if you aren’t a jerk, and you like it here, you’ll find your place here. We are a friendly bunch. **

I stick by that. Not everyone belongs to a cliq… er group. Some people belong to more than one. Personally, I don’t care if you do or don’t. If you find people you are comfortable with, naturally you are going to tend to communicate with them more. Why does it have to be seen as a bad thing?

Don’t feel ignored. People here are very cool. Just jump right in to the conversation like you did here.

20

heh-he-he.

You said “butt plug.”

Heh-heh-heh