The Structure of Promises (Relationships and Sex and Etc)

Great Debates
21

We both value trust and honesty very highly; that’s probably the main thing that has enabled us to stay together despite our significant differences. She worries from time to time that I’ll find someone I like better, but she says at least she doesn’t worry that it’s already happening behind her back because I promised I’d tell her if it did happen.

I guess I’m poly, but not even conventional in that!
::sigh::
If I were multiple people and didn’t have to worry about time constraints, oh yes definitely I could fall in love over and over again, accumulating people I was in love with and getting deeply and seriously involved with them all. In real life, I could conceive of perhaps two (although that has never happened), but I also need a fair amount of time strictly to myself (alone time) so that plus time with one other person tends to eat up most of the time that’s not already spoken for by job and sleep and such.

I do have a very difficult time explaining it (except to people who just “get it”), but if I have to stay, I won’t; if I can’t have sex with anyone else, I probably will; if I am forbidden to leave you, I’ll escape somehow. It is far and away too personal and too real a part of me and my life for anything coercive to be tolerated. That’s one part. Then there’s the, um, “weak brakes” thing. I could END UP in a situation I hadn’t planned that somehow included being on the receiving end of seductive speculations I found myself responding to. I daresay that if, beginning tomorrow morning, this planet’s sapient females were to start trying to bed guys with fervor and ambition and determination and sexually predatory attunement to my reactions, I’d end up on the slutty end of things; a great deal of my tendency towards unintended fidelity has to do with the fact that I myself am basically reactive rather than a creature of sexual initiative, and the majority of females don’t take a strong initiative (or, if they do, I’m not a “babe” and they don’t come after me). But how the heck can I promise I won’t do something when for the most part my record of not doing that something has to do with not getting the invitations? Females are cute and delicious, sex is slinky and yummy and often verges on irresistible, and I have every reason to think I have round heels and weak brakes and would be pretty easily bedded by a very large subset of any females inclined to try it…and yet I’m supposed to promise that this isn’t gonna happen???

[I should add that I would probably experience a lot of long-lasting displeasure if I did manage, out of some sense of promised duty, to jam my heels in the ground and stop such a thing from occurring. I have a strong sense of having under-experienced the joys of being seduced; my own ambivalence in such situations can be intensely erotic to me, like unto damn near nothing else, and I harbor a certain…well, LOYALTY to sexuality itself that says it is downright SINFUL to preemptively disqualify myself from the range of possible (albeit rarely likely) experiences that might touch upon this well of feeling.]

Anyway, I agree that there is no “high ground” in our dilemma. I didn’t really think there was, but I dared to suggest that I might be standing on it because I’m defensive in light of the tendency of “monogamy chauvinists” to say that I am shallow, that my values are just excuses for not growing up, [Redbook Magazine] why are men afraid of commitment? [/Redbook Magazine], etc…

In real life, I think if she can trust me and not hold herself at arm’s length emotionally, we’ll do all right. Short of seductresses developing lusty fascinations for my aging bod, it isn’t greatly likely that extracurricular activities will occur if I’m happy and satisfied with her, since my, um, antennae, as it were, tend to retract and I get more oblivious than usual and don’t notice if I’m being flirted with, etc.

22

You want her to “not hold you at arm’s length emotionally” while still making her insist you can walk off at any moment?

Well now, that’s quite fair and loving of you to give her such a reason to trust you with her whole and complete being.

This reminds me of a song! “I’m not in love, I’m just going to f**k you until someone better comes along” (Marilyn Manson I think) It’s such a safe position to put someone in. So kind and considerate of you. I’m actually quite overawed by your philosophical maturity at this point. (puts bitch back in the box, please forgive)

You have told her all of this, right? You have discussed this a a pair, haven’t you? she’s agreed that she feels warm and fuzzy about trusting you and holding you close to all of her heart and soul knowing full well you keep the option of waltzing off with no notice if, and I use the term very loosely, need be? You know you are asking her to betray something that is very important to her and doing it blithely because you feel that your position is superior. That’s some sobering stuff to think about someone you supposedly love. (Or will do for the time being, whatever.)

Let me spell this one out. You need to sit down with her and see what she feels comfortable with, share some thoughts and desires and feelings here. Poly means communication has to be solid. If you intend to even think about being almost philosophically poly, you have got to get this one straightened out. If she is cool with your gift of independance to her and you lose your discomfort over her gift of fidelity to you, I have no complaints about how you get there. But you need to get there together.

23

This is my point exactly when I was discussing how essential trust in is a monogamous relationship, moreso than any other relationship. She wants a relationship where you can say, “I absolutely will not sleep with another woman, no matter how attracted I am to that person. Because that’s just sex, and what we have together is so much more.” She wants that promise, and she wants to believe you. If she is asking for that promise, she is also implying that she is willing to trust you come hell or high water and your love for her.
What reason does she have to trust you right now? You are telling her that if you want, it’s perfectly OK for you to have sex with another woman, and there’s nothing she can do about it. She just has to have faith that…what? That you won’t leave her because what you have with the other woman is just lust? Lust passes. You won’t die if you don’t get to screw every single female you are attracted to.
I think you are trying to make yourself seem like the bigger person at the expense of your SOs. You want them to be so impressed because you can sleep around, yet choose not too. Well, nothing is ever stopping you from sleeping around. Except a promise. Do you have so little faith in your own integrity that you can’t even extend a promise to the woman you are supposed to love?
What’s stopping you from sleeping around now? Lack of oppurtunity, or lack of desire? If it’s the latter, then there is no reason why you shouldn’t agree to have a monogamous relationship. If it’s the former, maybe you shouldn’t be in a relationship at all.

24

Actually, AHunter, I do understand what you mean. My approach to my sexuality was almost identical to yours; for years, my sole criteria for sleeping with anyone was “Wants to have sex with me.” (Note to any impressionable young females out there: this may not be the happiest, healthiest route you can take to adulthood, especially if you are hanging out with teenage males. Try for something a little more selective if you can, even if it’s ‘only on alternate Tuesdays’ or something.) I, too, found that the only thing truly arousing was the power of being seduced and the power of saying yes.

I also have the knee-jerk reaction to being told I can’t do anything - not just sex, anything at all. Hell, I’m the person who got up and walked out of a ride at Disney World because after we were instructed to take our seats, etc., the alien said “Thank you for your submission.” It was a joke, and it was part of the pre-show, and I knew it - and I still couldn’t take it. (Though once prepared, I did manage to go through the ride the second time.) Just drives me nuts; again, much of what I did as a teenager and young adult was driven by this seemingly inescapable reaction.

However, I found that these traits weren’t very good for me, and I also found that although they were a part of me and I couldn’t make them go away, I could mitigate them somewhat. (Once I realized that a knee-jerk oppositional reaction made me as easy to manipulate and control as true obedience, I started making my own independent choices. And once I knew what truly turned me on about being seduced and wanted, I could make that happen in my current relationship without bringing strangers into it.) I also found that reactive sexuality was incompatible with a real, adult relationship - either of the polyamorous (done that) or the monogamous (doing that) kind.

Here’s why the “you want me and I’m yours” approach just doesn’t work in adult relationships, in my experience: it deprives your partner(s) of any kind of predictability or dependability in your relationship. Even in polywhatever, adding a new partner, permanently or temporarily, is something that has to be discussed and thought about beforehand; if you don’t give it some thought and some chat time, you’ll make bad decisions, screw things up with your partner(s). And even in a totally open relationship, where casual sex is completely acceptable, there are times when your prior commitment to your partner(s) will make you say no. Why? Because part of what you say in any relationship is “My partner(s) has(have) first claim to my time and resources.” In other words, you won’t have recreational sex or date with the aim of introducing a new partner to your life unless your current partner(s)'s needs are satisfied. In that way, in my experience, it is no different than monogamy.

Among my friends, the most open relationships I see are in the gay male couples. (This is not to say, for the record, that every one of my gay male friends is nonmonogamous, but some of them are, and when they are, they really are.) And even in the most extreme of these relationships, where casual sex is the order of every day and the primary recreation on the weekend, there are times when the prior commitments of the relationship supercede the current sexual opportunities. (“Gee, Mr. Hottie, I’d love to have sex with you, but my boyfriend is sick and needs me to take him home right now…” “Gee, Mr. Hottie, I’d just adore a date, but my boyfriend’s mother just died, and he kinda needs me here with him.”) That is, basically, the essence of any relationship - two or more people agreeing to meet each other’s needs first and foremost, agreeing to be mutually supportive and mutually encouraging.

Now, here’s the thing. Presumably, in some part of you, you already know that - how else could you have made it through as much life as you’ve lived? How else could you have spent three years in your current relationship? I have a hard time believing that it’s simply been luck all this time. I also have a hard time believing that in three years, no one has wanted to have sex with you - it’s much more probable that, as you say, your antennae have simply been retracted and you haven’t noticed. That’s just another way of saying that no matter what you believed was right, your reactions aligned more with standard relationship behavior; in other words, your antennae are retracted not just because you’re happy in your current relationship but because you know you can’t meet the needs of your partner if you’re having sex elsewhere.

If that’s the case, and I suspect it is, you’re fighting a battle you’ve already lost. On the levels where it counts, you are already putting your relationship first and making a commitment to it and to your partner and even to monogamy. You just can’t force yourself to say the words because you know that will deprive you of the illusion of adherence to your principles, and because you know that that illusion is what keeps you functioning. Should that be the case, well, I know if it was me I’d want to lose the illusions and take a long look at reality. If you don’t, though, that’s perfectly fine - but for god’s sake explain it to your partner; she needs to know the whole story.

If, on the other hand, you really have been living a luck-based life, maintaining this relationship only by virtue of the absence of any other possibilities, it is indeed time to cut loose. You won’t be able to give your partner what she needs unless or until you decide that’s what you need, too. And you won’t be able to make any decisions of that kind until you’ve put your principles to a real-life test, i.e., really lived the life they would construct for you.

Wow, what a long-winded and rather pompous post. Still ‘n’ all, AHunter, I think you need to be honest with your partner and honest (to the degree that you can stand it - hell, if we were all completely honest with ourselves, spontaneous combustion would be the leading cause of death) with yourself.

25

Deepbluesea makes a lot of sense.

Hunter, I don’t think your poly. I think you are a serial monogomist. Futhermore, I’m not sure your problem is committment as much as your integrity. You cannot promise “I will never have sex with anyone else for the rest of my life.” Which is hard and scary for most people. But you can’t even promise “I won’t have sex with anyone else between this moment and tomorrow afternoon.” Which is kinda problematic.

If you love & respect your girlfriend, you will not do anything that intentionally hurts her. So, you won’t (as long as you retain judgement), indulge in a quickie with someone else for immediate gratification because the pleasure you feel wouldn’t balance the pain your girlfriend (and you) would feel. If this statement is not true - you don’t really love her. However, you can’t PROMISE this because you are honest enough with yourself to know you can’t forsee every possiblity.

Try this compromise, “I fully intend not to have sex with anyone else between now and tomorrow afternoon.” or Saturday night when we have plans. That “promise” is being implied every time you make plans with her currently, you are just articulating it.

If she needs a committment now for the long term future, then you are obligated to let go. You certainly aren’t capable of meeting that need currently, and may never be.

26

Just jumping in the middle here, with my opinion on the OP:

AHunter, I don’t agree with your philosophies on monogamy, but that’s irrelevant. What is relevant is that your girlfriend very clearly disagrees with those philosophies. When that became clear, one or both of you should have broken it off, or decided that being with the other person is more important that your principles. It’s pretty clear that your girlfriend is not going to do this.

Right now, you’re just stringing this woman along. She is never going to accept you having the right to have sex with other people. If having that right is as important to you as you say it is, then break up with her. Right now. Don’t waste her time, or yours. You’re going to need it, to find that special someone who shares your beliefs, so you might as well start looking.

(These opinions have all been said before. I just like to vote.) :slight_smile: