The Structure of Promises (Relationships and Sex and Etc)

Great Debates
1

If one partner in a troubled relationshp is anti-marriage, anti-monogamy-promise-making, while the other is conventional, do either have claims for the better resolution? And/or are there any easy resolutions for their differences in beliefs and values?

Yeah, I know this kind of thing is more often a MPSIMSish subject, but this is serious. Nevertheless, some MPSIMSical background may help…

a) We’ve been together almost 3 years now

b) I knew how I felt about the issue as long ago as 1982 and put it in writing (copyrights and everything) as early as 1983 and SHE knew about it within a month of meeting up with me.

c) I do NOT have a pattern of sleeping around. Twice in my life, during the course of relationships that were either foundering or were in a “limbo state” of “are we or aren’t we currently a couple” I, um, ahem, have ever, yes, had sex with someone else while not necessarily over and done with or otherwise not officially out of an existing relationship. That is not, however, my usual pattern. Based on data ranging from loss of virginity to present day, it is my observation that I am not very interested in sex with other people when I am part of a functioning current relationship, and as a result of that lack of interest (plus the fact that I’m not generally sought after by enthusiastic salivating females trying their darndest to drag me into the proverbial sack, unless I’m awfully damn oblivious to it), I have tended to be a one-woman-at-a-time person.

d) We have an agreement that if either of us have sex with another person, we will tell the other. Because of her belief system, she says she will leave me immediately if this occurs; because of mine, I have said I would ask her how she feels about it having occured and whether or not she is OK with it (a statement which pisses her off substantially).

Now onwards to THE ISSUE:

Freedom happens to be important to me. I want to be with a woman who is free to have or to not have sex with me, and is also free to have sex or to not have sex with anyone else, and, given that freedom, chooses ME. I don’t want to clip her wings. I don’t want to own her. A couple hours after sex with her, I want to think that if we have sex again, she has once again said YES as a person who was free to make her decisions. Oddly (according to a rather large contingent of my species) I don’t worry about or mind if she also sometimes selects someone else; what matters is that I am continually selected, wanted, lusted after.

Similarly (despite the fact that I don’t even in my wildest dreams conceptualize myself as an object of lots of varied and random feminine lust) I need to feel that I am a free man, that my sexual choices and options are open-ended, and that if I choose to be with the person who happens to be my girlfriend, it is always, once again, a new choice, the expression of today’s love and lust and interest.

And (did I say this? did I say it loud enough, emphatically enough?) THIS IS IMPORTANT TO ME.

So, she – my current love – turns out to be a devoted monogamist. She says she would never, ever, under any conceivable circumstances, have sex with someone else because she is with me.

No problem. I don’t object, although I’m uncomfortable with the way she says it, which is to imply that I’m supposed to understand it as a gift or an expression of something I oughta appreciate. Her business, not mine, as far as I’m concerned. Interesting only because I’m interested in her and everything about her.

Then she says she needs to hear me say I won’t have sex with anyone else while we are a relationhship.

Problem. Not that I’m particularly likely to, given my inclinations (discussed above), but it’s…against my religion, for lack of a better term. Ain’t gonna happen. I am a person who prides himself on his flexibility and says with regards to ANYTHING that I might always change my mind, you know? Well, I consulted my feelings and based on what I feel now, I don’t foresee much likelihood of me ever making such a promise to anyone whatsoever, in this lifetime or any other.

In all fairness to her, she let me know early on that she wasn’t happy or comfortable with what I was saying about this. Silly me, I figured over time she’d see what I was driving at and would realize the absolute folly of the conventional possessiveness clause of typical relationships and would soon be glad to abandon it. (After all, I figured, she hadn’t exactly concluded it on her own, she’d bought into it like most folks do, without questioning it).

But I am, of course, right, aren’t I? Isn’t it totally destructive of everything you love someone for to ask of them “Uh, if you ever feel like making love to someone else, I ask you, because I love you, that you do not do what you want to do” --? We all agree that making such promises dooms you to clause-defined noun-like relationships in which all the questions have been answered, and the participants, if they stick together, end up dragging their dead and empty relationship behind them as they stagger towards the sunset, yes? (Yes? Hello? ::taps microphone just in case:: Anyone?)

Or, failing universal accord with my sentiments: I WAS honest, and not (entirely) foolish–I brought the matter up, early, and in writing (email courtship); she KNEW this was my belief-system.

So, given that one of two parters indicates a commitment to structuring a relationship one way, and the other of the two partners indicates a preference for structuring the relationship in a more conventional fashion–and given that the two structural models are mutually incompatible (in theory, even if not in practice)–

a) Do either of the partners thus described owe more than the other regarding a willingness to compromise positions that are important to them, or are they equally poised? (never mind that either of them can say “bye” and leave, we know that)

b) Is a meeting of the minds important and/or necessary for future security and happiness, or should the two parties dismiss theoretical differences and not worry about hypothetical events as long as actual events do not highlight discrepancies in their respective belief systems?

2

**

I don’t see how two people with fundamentally different philosophies can build a meaningful romantic relationship in the first place. I don’t say this to be mean but it seems to me that it would be difficult to form a relationship and take it in the same direction if you don’t share the same values. If they can’t decide on where the relationship should go then I think the best resolution would be for both parties to go their seperate ways

**

Woo hoo! I knew there had to be one!!

**

Is this really about freedom? Because it doesn’t matter what happens you are always free to sleep around if you so desire. Its just that you have to weigh the consequences of such actions. Is it worth the termination of my relationship with someone I love?

**

What does agreeing not to sleep around have anything to do with her loving you and saying yes as a person free to make her own decisions?

**

Most people aren’t like that. If they’re in a committed relationship they don’t expect their partners to sleep around. I don’t expect my wife to sleep around and if she did I’d be very hurt. Likewise I don’t sleep around and when we’re feeling romantic it is still an expression of our love. However I wouldn’t say it is a new choice as I made the choice to live my life with her many months ago.

**

I understand.

**

That’s not a very good sign of a healthy relationship. She’s addressing something that is important to her regarding your relationship and you say it is her business and not yours.

**

I don’t understand why you’re still together then? It sounds like you two want to go in different directions.

**

Is she a young woman? Because typically it is young people who will latch on to someone and expect that they will change over time. For some reason young people think that love triumphs over all but that simply isn’t true.

**

I don’t think it is destructive at all. I think it is more destructive to enter into a loving relationship and then do something you know will hurt the other person. Granted in this case she shares some blame for thinking that you’d change for her.

**

It was still foolish on your part to enter into a long term relationship with her. As it was foolish on her part. In the long run unless one of you changes you’re in for a world of hurt.

**

Nope. But you both need to sit down and decide how you see your relationship in the future. From your point of view you have to decide whether or not the relationship is worth the limited freedom.

A meeting of the mind is very important in establishing a long term relationship. If you don’t share the same goals and values the realtionship probably won’t persevere in the long haul. While to you this might just be a theoretical difference to her this might represent something that is very important. The core of this for her might be trust.

I’m kinda known for being a hard ass on the board but I don’t mean this message to be taken in such a way. Its just from my point of view and limited experience you two are asking for a world of trouble. Sometimes loving someone just isn’t enough to have a long term relationship with them. That’s ok. I really wish you luck in whatever decision you two make.

Marc

3

I’m no relationship expert, but…

Ah no, I disagree. Should I ever be married, I would want to agree upon monogamy. After marriage, I would not be surprised if I find myself having a crush on another woman. I’m not expecting it, mind you. But it could happen. And I would hope that I’d be able to set those transient feelings aside, partly for the sake of my hypothetical marriage but mostly for the sake of my hypothetical kids.

Anyway, I don’t believe that committed relationships are inherantly “dead” ones. I see nothing wrong with agreements within a relationship. And it appears to me that your philosophy seems more compatible with serial monogomy than raising kids. But I again must stress my uncertainty and ignorance regarding these issues.

4

Well this is an easy one. When Mrs ask and I first hooked up, she said I could have sex with any other woman I wished…I just had to get her permission first. This has worked perfectly - I tell her that I could have sex with O who is beautiful etc…and she says - sorry, no can do. This has happened every time - but one day…

5

AHunter… you have a great deal to learn here. Or you could not learn it, and continue to be frustrated.

You have several issues going here. We could debate the validity of your philosophy on the one hand, but you seem more interested in how it actually affects your relationship.

You never should have gotten involved with this woman. You both blew it, big time. If you are being sincere and accurate, it seems you were both clear about where you were coming from, and yet, knowing that you were on completely different wavelengths, with utterly opposed expectations, you went ahead and pursued the relationship, each assuming, very foolishly and arrogantly, that the other would come around. Therefore, you both deserve what you are getting and are gonna get, which is tons of heartache as you work around to getting over this and moving on to people who are more like you are.

As for the validity of your philosophy… I think the only way you can legitimately make that work and have anything resembling a satisfying relationship is to essentially embrace the swinging lifestyle. That means you get involved with a woman of like mind, you commit to each other, and you explore sex with other people from within the comfort and joy of a committed relationship. But this crap about “renewing” your desire daily is a very elaborate attempt to justify being absolutely terrified of commitment and essentially unwilling to grow up. Ever hear of security? There is nothing charming or desirable about never feeling that your beloved has any intention or desire to do what it takes to build a satisfying and whole bond with you, and is rather ever on the lookout for something tastier. You want your cake, the icing, and a few cookies besides. Bogus.

If you ever want love, you had better get over it. If you just want to have sex, no problem. Or do what I suggested and look for a partner who is into swinging.

Good luck…

stoid

6

I agree completely with this. You want the best of all worlds with a woman who will only off you one. Either you commit to someone who wants an “open relationship” or grow up enough to commit yourself to one woman. Right now this relationship is not fair for either one of you. If you can’t take it upon yourself to see things her way, and to understand you may be hurting her by implying you’d sleep with other women, then you should probably break up. Relationships are about compromises, but if this is like a “religion” to you, I doubt either one of you will be able to reach an acceptable compromise.

I have the same system with my fiance that don’t ask has with his wife. I told him he could sleep with whomever he wants but he must A)Ask my permission B)Let me interview the person C)Let me watch OR provide me with all the juicy details(Including pics) D)Never spend any money on her in anyway E)Only see her on nights I give the OK.
So far, he hasn’t met anybody worth the trouble. :wink:

7

What you mean is ‘i want to have sex with lots more women BUT keep my partner for now in case i don’t find anyone amazing !’.
You can’t have it both ways UNLESS you cheat and don’t tell OR find a swinger type girlfriend BUT then you risk losing her.
It sounds like after 3 years the initial attraction has worn off, you have to ask yourself ‘what is left, is it love ?’.

If your finding things a bit staid, is your current partner willing to experiment, ask her about this, she may be bored as well. The answer isn’t a different partner, its more experimentation or find something else to do !.
lets cut the shit, if she is willing to dress up as a cheerleader and say ‘come on mr big’ ? and if not can you find someone else who is !

8

Oh, man, AHunter, you and she walked right into this one. I cringed for you both, reading the OP. As I see it:

  1. You have inherently contradictory philosophies regarding committment. You will not commit to a monogamous relationship, and she will not accept a nonmonogamous relationship. To put it another way: you need to hear from her that you’re free to screw whomever you please, whether you actually use that freedom or not. She needs to hear from you that you absolutely would not screw anyone else while you’re in a relationship with her, whether you want to or not. There’s no middle ground here.

  2. You both knew this fairly early on and proceded with the relationship anyway. Probably you both figured that the other would come around - just as you assumed she’d see the inherent rightness in your stance on the issue (there isn’t any, btw), she assumed you’d see the inherent rightness in hers (there isn’t any there, either). To put it bluntly, these are not good assumptions to make. Courtship is the opportunity to find out things like this before you’ve got too much invested in the relationship.

  3. That’s water under the bridge. I will assume (more assumptions!) that if there’s a next time around for you, you’ll have a lot better idea of what to look for - after all, that’s why we make these mistakes. And apparently you don’t want to debate the rightness or wrongness of your stance - you want answers to specific questions.

No, neither partner “owes” more. There is no moral high ground here; you both told the truth, and you both had an opportunity to hear the truth, but neither of you did, because neither of you wanted to.

Of course a meeting of the minds is important. This is a fundamental issue for both of you. And the differences are not theoretical - whether or not they derive from theory (and btw, the odds are that they mostly don’t), they are differences in fact now. This isn’t hypothesizing about whether someone is going to sleep around. It’s a very real and immediate conflict about what one of you cannot give, and the other must have; it’s about what is or is not being said now, not what will or will not be done later.

My advice? Right now you need to make a decision: is this relationship worth saving? It will take an enormous amount of effort at this point. It will require both of you to make some choices that will be painful and very difficult. On the other hand, this relationship has lasted for three years - it must have something good going for it. Only you know the balance sheet here, and it’s time for you to take the reckoning - you either choose to try to save it, in which case I will be happy to give you some perfectly worthless (as all advice is) advice on how to try to do so, or you choose to lose it. (And, just for the record - choosing not to make a choice on this is choosing to lose it.)

FWIW, AHunter, I am in a similar situation in my own relationship. My gf is a fundamental monogamist; I don’t much care, and my sole policy on this is that if my partner’s going to sleep with someone else, I had better hear about it first and have some input. (I.e., that person had better not have venereal diseases, or be my sister, or anything that has an immediate and unpleasant impact on my life.) We’ve worked out this difference, though it was painful, and the relationship is worth all the effort that went into it.

One thing, though: I was the one who compromised on this, mostly because once I understood what was going, I understood that this was the only way to keep the relationship. For most American women, sex equals love. And there’s nothing they can do about that; it’s an ingrained belief and absolutely unchangeable, like a belief in gravity. So, I happen to be an American woman who does know the difference between sex and love - that doesn’t matter. I’m married to a woman who does not, who will feel betrayed if I have sex with someone else, who will feel she’s lost my love. And there is no way for her to change that feeling; she can’t just admit it’s logical and bid it goodbye. Feelings, especially deep-seated ones, don’t work that way. So it makes sense for me to be the one to give on this issue; I have flexibility in my system, she doesn’t and can’t.

What do I lose by making that promise to her? Nothing I couldn’t get back if I needed it (and, btw, in eight years so far I haven’t). What do I gain by making that promise to her? A wonderful, supportive, balanced relationship.

For me, the choice was fairly obvious. But if that kind of reasoning brings on a panic attack for you, if you cannot entertain even the thought of giving in on this one without your blood pressure skyrocketing, then the relationship may well be beyond salvage, may have been so from the beginning. (If that turns out to be true, take a long, long look at this whole thing before you start again; you need to figure out why this is so important to you. Right now, I’m not sure that you know.)

Good luck to you, AHunter. Keep me posted…

9

I am in 100% agreement with Stoid.
I especially liked this part:

10

So you want her to adore the idea that you are a big enough person to allow her to choose anyone she wants, but refuse to appreciate that she wants only you?

You are both giving the other what you yourself desire and niether gift is being appreciated, because its not what the reciever wants. For instance, I am a girly mushy person. Am I truly giving selflessly if I give a teddy bear to my inductrial goth bf? That bear is going to end up on my bed anyway, he’s not going to sleep with the thing. But if I agonise over getting him a new sword, that is getting him something for him. Which is why it means so much to me when he gives me a stuffed animal. It means he thought about what I like/desire/want and went out of his way and normal life to fit to that. Its special. Him getting me a black leather halter top is more for him than for me.

You are giving her what you want and then complaining when she gives you what she wants. Now if this could be solved by you giving her what she wants and she giving you want you want, that would be great! I’m sure she would be happy to say, “Honey I want to you to be free to love as you please” if she knew that your answer would be “I’ll always love you.”

You can rid yourself of the idea of the inherent superiority of your way, sit down with the girl and chat this through. Or you can accept that you goofed and ditch her. Or you can subvert your desires and give her what she wants without discussion.

I suggest option A.

And I hear you on possesion and freedom, I’m insane over these things. My relationship with Mr. Goth started on just those terms. That we would spend time with whoever we wanted and what we did when not together was our own business. It worked great until one or the other of us exersized that option. Then we felt hurt and betrayed anyway, but without justification.

So to answer your questions, no niether one of you have a high ground here. Relationships don’t come out of a can, teh two of you have to find something that works for both of you or go your merry ways. (And if you stick her in something she feels unsafe in, or you get stuck in something you feel trapped in, that is not “working”) Yes, you need a meeting of the minds. Unless you like what is going on so far, with you blatantly ignoring her wishes and her desperatly trying to change yours. I guess combat can be fun.

11

WTF is all this drama? People of opposing philosophies maintain loving relationships the world over. As an example, I think that two people who have opposite opinions with regards to religion have slightly more weighty issues of concern than whether it’s okay to boink the freakin’ neighbor when you’ve got the itch, yet interfaith marriage is very common. This difference of opinion does not spell doom for your relationship, AHunter3, and you should point and laugh at anyone who tells you that you were wrong to get involved. That’s just a steaming load of crap.

Now then …

I understand your need for freedom. Interestingly, it seems to me that you are more concerned with the concept of freedom than the acts associated with that concept. But I could be wrong about that.

Why exactly do you believe there is a reason to tell your partner everything about outside sexual encounters? No, really. I understand the honesty and communication bit – no question there. However, this intention to bring the effects of any extracurricular activities into your relationship smells a little funny to me. I’m not at all suggesting that secrets should be kept, but the idea that you would feel the need and obligation to share such things seems to be in opposition to your stated desire for freedom. Perhaps that kind of freedom is not really as important to you as you’ve got yourself convinced. Perhaps there is something above freedom caught up in the honesty and communication bit that makes the whole freedom thing silly and inconsequential. I dunno.

I admire your dedication to your personal philosophy, AHunter3, but I think you’ve gone and fucked up. That love thing might just have you in its wicked clutches. This love in this relationship has shaken you enough to make you question your personal beliefs (and take a lot of flak for it). Perhaps it’s time to wonder whether the rigidity of your personal morality might just be a hindrance rather than a source of pride. Again, I dunno.

12

Well, but the problem here isn’t one of opposing philosophies; even though AHunter describes a philosophical ground for his stance, it at this point comes down to competing needs for specific promises and behaviors. Nothin’ to do with philosophy - they aren’t arguing about the existential nothingness, ferchrissakes, just reality, which is a lot harder to resolve.

The interfaith marriage analogy doesn’t really hold up, IMO. In an interfaith marriage, it’s (usually) possible to make this statement: “You believe what you believe, and I’ll believe what I believe, and we won’t be judgemental or argumentative about it.” That said, both parties worship how they feel they must and quit the arguing. At that point, though, compromise is not only possible but obvious, and the reality of the issue is easily dealt with. The problems will be a lot more difficult to solve when kids come to an interfaith couple, because now the hands-off policy isn’t possible. The partners are going to have to agree on one way to teach their children about religion, one primary church, one primary dogma. That situation, which cannot easily be compromised away, is more analogous to AHunter’s, since resolution in his case can only come if one or both parties give up a need and a belief. There’s really not a lot of useful middle ground between the two of them.

13

I’m not going to give you any relationship advice because I’m not good at that and love is a mystery anyway. I would, however (if you don’t mind too much), like to discuss the following statement in a general way:

You wrote down this principle nearly 20 years ago!–by the way, was it just this principle, or was it all of the principles you live your life by?

Do you think it is generally good to live one’s life in a principled way, or is it better to respond to each situation independent of an overriding principle? I think that when we are young we tend to believe in ends, but when we are older, we tend to find the means more important. When we think we can control our world, create progress or a good life, principles drive us on and prevent us from being distracted from our goals. When we experience problems over which we have no realistic control, but which we must nevertheless respond to, we act less from big principles but more from small, of-the-moment instinctual “impulses.” Those “instinctual responses” may tell more about who we are than our life’s work or our written principles.

To say that someone is unprincipled or lives a life with no thought for principled action is one of the biggest insults we have. Sometimes, though, principles are too big and blunt, and dictate means which are unacceptable to more basic principles. (Example: a parent who speaks out strongly against illegal drug use and favors tough penalties will nevertheless decide whether or not to post bail for a child caught using drugs based on what the parent thinks will be best for the child, not best for the nation or justice system as a whole.) My confidence in my ability to establish workable specific principles has decreased as my age has increased; I’ve found myself backing away from specifics to basics (compassion, people before things) which cannot be expressed in written form as a code of conduct for all circumstances.

So, do this: reexamine your principle; be sure that it applies to the situation; figure out if it violates any other principle you live by; and figure out if it is basic to who you are. Then you will know whether or not you can compromise.

14

First, I’d like to say “Feh!” those who denounce non-monogamy as immature, selfish, trying to have your cake and eat it too, equivalent to swinging, etc., etc., etc. That’s a hidebound, narrowminded viewpoint, and you’d do well to rid yourself of it. (Flame away at that, if you wish, but you should probably open another thread to avoid a hijack.)

That having been said, Hunter, the number one way to go wrong with a non-mono lifestyle is when you and your partner aren’t being honest with each other about it, and I think, on a fundemental level, you’re not.

She has already told you that she’ll leave you if you sleep with someone else. I can understand why she’s pissed off when you dismiss her statement that she’ll leave you–she’s telling you how she feels, and you’re patting her on the head and saying, “No, sweetie, you don’t really think that. Deep down you think the way I do, because I’m right.” You had better start treating her with respect, and accept that she’s telling you the truth. You’d better believe 100% that if you bag some other babe, the relationship is over. If you dally with someone else, don’t rely on an unanticipated epiphany on her part, or a sudden surge in your ability to persuade her, to pull your nuts out of the fire. She’ll be gone.

So, stating, “I won’t sleep with anyone else while I’m in a relationship with you,” isn’t making a promise–it’s simply restating a fact. You sleep with someone else, boom, relationship over–you don’t get a vote. That’s the status quo, whether you’re able to accept it or not. Saying it isn’t going to change anything.

Tell her what she wants to hear (beause it’s true), or persuade her that she’s placing unreasonable restrictions on your freedom (don’t just assume in a condescending manner that eventually she’ll come around), or if you feel your wings unduly clipped, leave the relationship and find a nice poly girl who shares your philosophies.

15

Thanks for the thoughtful comments and feedback, folks. Mostly you’re telling me what I was thinking (except for those of you who were saying my entire position is indicative of immaturity etc; I wasn’t thinking THAT, and still don’t). You’re telling me and I’m still trying not to listen. :frowning:

Yes, I love her, and it would appear to be mutual. We should’ve had our eyes open and hopped out of this one way early on and now we’ve painted ourselves into this corner. I suppose we SHOULD leave each other but we don’t want to, even if a bad crash would seem to be inevitable. All other things being equal, why not later instead of sooner? Apart from maybe having a larger percentage of our remaining lives left to us to rebuild with other, more compatible people? This is very sad to contemplate.

So I’m going to turn my attention elsewhere and not contemplate it right now, excuse me…

16

Does one partner **owe **more than the other partner? No. But someone’s opionion may be stronger. Someone’s resolve may be stronger. Someone may have an issue that is not going to be persuaded otherwise.
A manifesto written on paper (or stone) does not make it correct, right, or relevant 20 years later. Most people evolve and change what they think is important in 20 years’ time.
Asking a lover not to do what they want to do when it involves sex with a third person is not too much to ask. There are things I would like to do that I don’t out of respect and affection for my SO.
Expecting your lover to not be unhappy with you attitude of Let’s-see-I’ll-stick-with-you-until-somebody-better-stumbles-across-my-path is an example of magical thinking at it’s most selfish. You want it, so you’re right? I’m surprised your girlfriend doesn’t leave you to find a man who will love her with the respect she deserves. If she is unhappy with your choices about the life the two of you live, she should not settle for you.

17

What?! A poster with a Heinlein-inspired name that’s positive about poly?! Can’t be! :smiley:

And Hunter, Podkayne is absolutely correct. If you’re sleeping with other people with the permission and consent of your primary partner, that’s poly. If you’re sleeping with other people behind your partner’s back, that’s cheating. Be careful.

I can only see four possibilities for this relationship. There are no comfy pillows at the bottom of this well. Either you go mono for the whole time you’re with this woman (possibly the rest of your life), she changes her mind about poly and learns to understand how it works, you cheat on her and you break up, or you break up because you can’t go mono. At the moment, #2 is not happening. She’s adamant about monogamy (which is understandable given the way it’s touted by society). She’s not going to suddenly “get” poly out of the blue…you have to realize that.

Those are the four choices I see, Hunter. What you do with them is your call.

jayjay
Haven of Dreams

18

I don’t think the idea in general is immature. However, I think some of the people who think this way are. There are a number of posters on this board who have an open relationship who I respect tremendously. However, I think Hunter is acting immature by seemingly ignoring what his SO is trying to tell him.
I think Medea’s Child hit the nail squarely on the head with this comment.

Hunter’s SO is making a promise at the very beginning that she has already seen many men, but wants to be with him. I don’t think that it’s unreasonable for her to get the same promise out of Hunter.
She’s a big girl, and it seems she’s already chosen you. Why can’t you simply extend the same respect to her?
I’m going to quote Cyn because she said it so well

Hunter, I think that honesty and trust is probably important to you and your relationships. Because without trust, you could not have the “freedom” you crave. Don’t you think monogamy needs more honesty than any other type of relationship?

19

I hate to disagree with you on this one, PLG, but no. The relationship which really needs the most honesty to work is a polyamorous one. Communication, communication, communication! When the working of a relationship depends on knowing how a primary partner feels about one seeing a secondary, or knowing how all a triad’s members feel about one of them adding a new lover into the social mix, honesty and communication are absolutely necessary.

I’m not denigrating monogamy. There’s nothing wrong with monogamy if that’s how one is wired. Just as I’d never berate or belittle someone for being straight, I don’t put down monogamy. But monogamy is easier than true polyamory, because there are simple rules and clear boundaries. Polys have to set their own rules, in what is basically committee, and have to deal with new love situations that don’t fall within those rules by yet more committee decision-making. A poly relationship is, in the long run, a much more communicative relationship than the average mono relationship, because it has to be.

Supposedly poly relationships without honesty or communication are really just cheating on a spouse/lover.

jayjay
Haven of Dreams

20

I can see where you are coming from, and while I think you have a point, I don’t quite agree.
True you have to be secure in your relationship and trust your partner in order to agree to a polyamorous system. However, I don’t think a monogamous relationship is exactly “clear cut”.
In a monogamous relationship you are saying up front what the expectations are. But that’s not enough. Then you must trust your partner to keep his/her side of the bargain. You are right, a polyamorous relationship w/o honesty is just cheating. That’s why trust in a monogamous relationship is so important. I’m not going to enter a relationship and pledge myself to a person in, say, marriage, unless I can absolutely trust without a doubt that he would never cheat on me.
I think it takes a great deal of trust to believe someone when they tell you that they will never “satisfy their urges” elsewhere. And I think it takes a great deal of respect for another person to promise them that you never will either. Because I think that by nature people, men especially, are not monogamous, that it impresses me a great deal when two people decide that they love, respect, and care for each other enough to attempt it.