If urinating outside killed babies, I think I’d be OK with it.
Or if the government needed to collect my urine because it would save babies lives, once again, I would be OK with it.
The question is whether or not these things are the moral equivalent of babies or something close to it.
That doctor should have his/her medical license suspended if not revoked.
Yes, I think it should be illegal to “just dump the baby in the water”. That’s plain murder. Not sure how that would be enforced though.
It shouldn’t be illegal if the sickness is deadly and contageous but I wouldn’t do it. I have no idea how someone one a life raft would determine the severity of the sickness, unless I’m a doctor that is an expert in such matters. But in that case I definitely wouldn’t throw the baby overboard. Can you imagine? Again, no idea how the law would be enforced.
Doesn’t matter at all.
In that case, I have absolutely no reason to kick the incubator off the boat because it doesn’t pose any threat to me. And that’s someone else’s future kid. Kicking it off could easily cause great emotional distress to someone, regardless of whether I assign personhood to the egg or not. Am I misinterpreting you?
I think your hypothetical backfired. Under certain circumstances I might kick the baby off, but under no circumstances do I kick off the machine with the egg inside.
~Max
You use this phrase a lot. It’s not that they don’t understand you, they don’t agree with you.
They could just as easily ask why it is so hard for you to understand that abortions murder innocent babies.
I’m pretty sure that we can decide that you generally cannot kill other people.
No, I agree with puddleglum on this one.
To put it in another perspective, I think the government should provide a public health care system. Does somebody who opposes public health care have a valid point if they ask me if I’m paying for some uninsured person’s medical expenses? That person could argue that I don’t really care about uninsured people not having access to medical care if I’m not willing to personally step in.
I don’t bring homeless people into my home but I want to get rid of homelessness even if it means more taxes for everyone.
I don’t want to personally represent murderers and rapists but i want them to have advice of counsel.
Maybe that just makes me a hypocrite, but I’m a hypocrite with a vote and you have to persuade me to vote your way. You can’t scold me into it.
Sigh, it has turned into an abortion spinoff.
OK, what do people fear losing on…homelessness laws? squatter laws? minimum wage? Medicare for All? higher or lower military spending?
Oh man how did abortion even get involved in this thread?
Taking them in order, and trying to phrase them in your requested fear-of-loss:
Homelessness laws - I fear losing the ability to walk the streets in open-toed shoes
Squatter laws - I fear losing my home, I suppose, although squatter laws aren’t really a major source of political contention, and I’m not terribly worried about losing it.
Medicare for All - I fear losing my current health care coverage, which is pretty damn good.
Lower military spending - I fear losing a military capable of defending our nation from threats and defeating all our enemies.
Your lack of a stake here makes dismissing your arguments easy.
If you can’t tell the difference between the unborn and the born, can you distinguish between the undead and the dead? :smack: If you think embryos are persons, shouldn’t they face all other legal burdens persons face, like taxation, fares, elevator and room capacity limits, etc? Or is an embryo only a “person” so you can control a woman’s body?
Back to the topic. The abortion issue grimly features choice vs slavery. What will be lost in the struggle? Freedom.
I’d like to investigate if putting a roof over all their heads isn’t the cheapest method. If it isn’t, we’ll try something else.
No opinion on squatter laws without specifics. I don’t know much about the subject.
UHC is cheaper, smarter, better for the citizenry at large and better for the economy in the long run. A rare combination.
I want defense spending frozen and gradually decreased over time. We have surrendered the right to interfere around the globe because of our superior democracy.
Unasked: I’m worried about losing democracy here at home because of our unwillingness to reform our antiquated systems, our growing antipathy to universal suffrage and a large part of the electorate increasingly seeking power over the expansion of democracy.
Have at me.
Unwanted babies in the US are so rare that 25,000 couples had to go overseas to adopt. Many countries now have bans on international adoptions because so many american couples adopted babies from there. Yet, because I have not taken away a baby from a couple that unlike me has none of their own, my arguments are easy to dismiss? That makes no sense, I have no homeless people living with me at the moment, yet I don’t think it should be legal to murder them, nor do I have any Canadians living with me, but I think open season on Canucks is a bad idea.
I can distinguish between the dead and the living, a fetus is moving, growing, has a beating heart, and a functioning brain. Those mean it is a living thing. When it is ripped from its mother’s womb and is no longer moving, growing, its heart has stopped beating, and its brain has stopped working then it is dead.
I think the issue whether embryos should be taxed should be settled on a case by case basis depending on the job the embryo has and whether it is on salary or is working on an hourly basis. Fares is up to the bus or train company and elevator capacity is a difficult issue that I will need more time to think through all the implications.
Slavery is not involved in the abortion issue at all, the choice is between life and death.
Like every other law. If we catch you, we send you to jail.
So if you thought a fetus = baby then you think it’s murder? Even if it causes significant discomfort and inconvenience to you.
Lets say you’re a doctor so you recognize the deadly but only slightly contagious disease.
So if you think fetus = baby but the fetus presents risk to the health/life of the mother then /= murder?
Some people get abortions for these reasons but would keep a baby without downs or some handicap. Should they be permitted to do so?
So these are things that would not change your answer is you think fetus = baby
Lets say its your kid in there. The incubator takes up space, requires you to take care that it doesn’t tip overboard, you bang into it from time to time bruising yourself and makes a humming noise that keeps you awake and makes you a little seasick.
So you think a surrogate mother should not be able to get an abortion? Or you wouldn’t do it if you were a surrogate mother. That’s someone else’s kid.
How did it backfire?
Forcing a woman into unwanted labor isn’t slavery? You need a new dictionary.