The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Locrian

And irrelevant to 100% of republican senators.

What is it gonna take??? He pisses off NAFTA allies, acts like a buffoon in Helsinki, pulls out the troops protecting Kurds, stops congressional aid to Ukraine-- all of this benefits Russia. All of it. How is this still a “witch hunt”? And more importantly, for the life of me, I can absolutely not figure out why all the GOP senators/reps are constantly backing this guy. He’s hurting their party, period.

Everything seems to be now designed to benefit Russia:

The US Navy canceled a routine Black Sea patrol after Trump complained that it was hostile to Russia

Christopher Anderson, an aide to former Special Envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker, testified that the White House canceled a Navy freedom-of-navigation operation in the Black Sea after President Donald Trump complained to then-national security adviser John Bolton about a CNN report that framed the operation as a counter to Russia, Politico reported.
According to Anderson’s testimony, the news report in question came from CNN and characterized the operation as antagonistic toward Russia. Anderson testified that Trump called Bolton at home to complain about the article, and the operation was later canceled at the behest of the White House, Anderson said.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

I honestly think that the reason for many GOP politicians support of Trump at this point is that they are all-in with Russian money and/or involvement. And they know that if Trump goes down, they ALL go down.

[Ravenman]

@HurricaneDitka

Earlier in this thread I outlined some things that would motivate me to support impeachment. Policy differences were not on the list.

Using government resources for personal advantage is not a policy difference. It isn’t like Watergate boiled down to a policy disagreement on the proper uses of our intelligence agencies in domestic matters.

[QuickSilver]

@iiandyiiii

What’s most mind-boggling about this is the admissions of disgusting and reprehensible behavior by Trump. I can at least conceive of the rationalization and thought required for going all in for someone with the political talent, charisma, and overall apparent decency of, say, Obama or Reagan, if they tried to trade foreign aid to another country for a politically-motivated investigation into a rival. But Trump? Who’s bragged about sexual assault and violation of consent on multiple occasions, and said numerous racist and hateful things about fellow Americans?

What’s the thought process for a decent person to brush aside not only all that, but putting petty political concerns over national security and international relations (i.e. the basis of my hypothetical)? Is the SCOTUS really more important not only than personal decency, but national security and our international reputation?

I think it’s time to accept the fact that at least 35% of the population are not “decent” people. They act normal, most of the time. But given the opportunity and permission to be deplorable, they will jump at the chance and revel in it without shame, guilt, or forethought to consequence.

[kaylasdad99]

@QuickSilver

The GOP is defunct.

Cool.

Dib on their financial assets!

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@QuickSilver

I think it’s time to accept the fact that at least 35% of the population are not “decent” people. They act normal, most of the time. But given the opportunity and permission to be deplorable, they will jump at the chance and revel in it without shame, guilt, or forethought to consequence.

LBJ had it right:

If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.

[iiandyiiii]

@QuickSilver

I think it’s time to accept the fact that at least 35% of the population are not “decent” people. They act normal, most of the time. But given the opportunity and permission to be deplorable, they will jump at the chance and revel in it without shame, guilt, or forethought to consequence.

I wish it were that simple, but in my experience it’s much more complicated. I served in the Navy with some MAGA cultists (15 years ago, so I suppose they were future cultists) who would lay down their lives to save their shipmates. Did they become indecent since then? I don’t know.

Humans are weird. And unfortunately, that weirdness can do great harm to lots of innocent people.

[QuickSilver]

@Euphonious_Polemic

I honestly think that the reason for many GOP politicians support of Trump at this point is that they are all-in with Russian money and/or involvement. And they know that if Trump goes down, they ALL go down.

I can believe that a small handful might be compromised in some way. It’s possible. That all GOP senators and most reps are compromised in this way begs credulity. That Putin made Trump into a useful idiot is beyond shadow of a doubt. That Putin Svengali’d his way through the entire GOP congress is simply not plausible.

[Gatopescado]

Damn Trump made me miss Wayne Brady and Drew Carey this morning! I’ve been cheated!

[Locrian]

@QuickSilver

I can believe that a small handful might be compromised in some way. It’s possible. That all GOP senators and most reps are compromised in this way begs credulity. That Putin made Trump into a useful idiot is beyond shadow of a doubt. That Putin Svengali’d his way through the entire GOP congress is simply not plausible.

I can believe Moscow Mitch and Leningrad Lindsey might have ties somewhere, but I agree that the whole GOP is in cahoots with a non-ally isn’t a plausible theory. Someone’s campaign would’ve slipped up somewhere.

[QuickSilver]

@iiandyiiii

I wish it were that simple, but in my experience it’s much more complicated. I served in the Navy with some MAGA cultists (15 years ago, so I suppose they were future cultists) who would lay down their lives to save their shipmates. Did they become indecent since then? I don’t know.

It is not a contradiction to believe they would lay down their lives for their fellow brothers in arms. They, perhaps more than others, are very tribal and loyal to those they see as their own. Especially so when a picture of the enemy is so clearly defined for them. As I’m sure you could attest, while every person in uniform is capable of self sacrifice for their brothers and sisters, some are more likely to follow questionable orders than others. Trump is not smart but he has sufficient cunning to know that. He’s manipulated those who are easily manipulated.

As circumstances change, people change. I believe some became indecent since then. Some may never have been as decent as you thought them to be.

[Dr.Colossus]

@QuickSilver

I think it’s time to accept the fact that at least 35% of the population are not “decent” people. They act normal, most of the time. But given the opportunity and permission to be deplorable, they will jump at the chance and revel in it without shame, guilt, or forethought to consequence.

This is achingly true, and it’s why I kill any attempts of people trying to discuss politics with me. I already know too much about people I used to respect.

The problem with supporting Trump is that you have to sell your soul just to justify who he is as a person. Some people I used to respect–elders in their churches in fact–yelled at me about how “racists *are *good people” back around Charlottesville.

[steronz]

The important thing I learned today was that Democrats are the real baddies, and Trump did nothing wrong.

I mean, sure, career civil servants George Kent and Bill Taylor were so alarmed by what they saw the president doing that they voiced concerns to their respective leaderships. And sure, several other key career civil servants felt the same way, including an anonymous whistleblower. And sure, the ethical issues that these career civil servants saw should have been obvious to anyone with 2 functional brain cells. And sure, Trump failed to anticipate this completely obvious reaction. And sure, once Trump realized that people had an issue with the way he was handling Ukrainian foreign policy he made absolutely no effort to use a top-down leadership approach to set anyone’s minds at ease. And sure, releasing the military aid package only once knowledge of the whistleblower complaint leaked really looks bad for the president. And sure, anyone with 2 functioning brain cells would have anticipated that it would look bad, and once again use an effective top-down leadership approach to ensure that the optics were solid. And sure, Trump chose not to use an effective leadership strategy but to attack any and all civil servants under his command who dared to question his obviously questionable Ukrainian foreign policy. And sure, this has pretty much doomed his presidency to be completely ineffective from here on out just because he lacked the intelligence, foresight, and ethical understanding to prevent this completely obvious chain of events from happening.

But… shit, where was I going with this?

[Icarus]

I just came here to say -

запереть его

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@QuickSilver

I can believe that a small handful might be compromised in some way. It’s possible. That all GOP senators and most reps are compromised in this way begs credulity. That Putin made Trump into a useful idiot is beyond shadow of a doubt. That Putin Svengali’d his way through the entire GOP congress is simply not plausible.

Not all.

But many. If I had to guess, I’d say 5 - 10 GOP senators and maybe 20 GOP in the house are compromised by Russian contacts or money. But that’s enough.

[Airbeck]

Don’t forget that they pretty much all got money from the NRA, and we now know where the NRA was getting a lot of that money.

[QuickSilver]

@Euphonious_Polemic

Not all.

But many. If I had to guess, I’d say 5 - 10 GOP senators and maybe 20 GOP in the house are compromised by Russian contacts or money. But that’s enough.

What about the rest? Are the rest simply Trump fans? I’m not sure which is worse - being a fan of Trump or being compromised by Putin.

I’m sorry, this is well into CT territory.

It’s much simpler than that. Trump got 63M votes in the last election, and won. Almost half of the total votes cast. If you are a career politician in the GOP, would you write off you next chances of election to be the principled Republican candidate? The evidence is clear that the only GOP congressmen who are actually encumbered by morals and principles are the ones that end up overwhelmed by the sudden desire to spend more time with their family and pursuing other interests. All those who stay are moral cowards and deplorable sycophants.

[Aspenglow]

@QuickSilver

I can believe that a small handful might be compromised in some way. It’s possible. That all GOP senators and most reps are compromised in this way begs credulity. That Putin made Trump into a useful idiot is beyond shadow of a doubt. That Putin Svengali’d his way through the entire GOP congress is simply not plausible.

I understand your incredulity, but in fact there are more bits of evidence to support a sizeable number of Republicans being compromised by Russians, wittingly or unwittingly, than many realize.

Republicans received Russian money funneled through the NRA in support of their campaigns. (NPR) Hard to nail this one down since Republicans have blocked further investigation, but roughly 30 million dollars was donated via the NRA to Republicans and Trump in 2016 – significantly more than they had ever donated in any past election.

Former House member Pete Sessions received a sizeable campaign contribution from Lev Parnas’s shell company, Fraud Guarantee, with a “request” to write a letter to Mike Pompeo to ask for removal of Ukraine Ambassador Marie Yovanovich. The source of the money is purported to be Russian. Additionally, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman made numerous donations to GOP members at various times through several shell companies, including Fraud Guarantee and Loan Crime Investigation Group, among others. Documented donations flowed to Kevin McCarthy, 20 Republican state parties and others in 2016.

Here is an article that details those donations. (Rolling Stone)

Lastly, don’t overlook the 200 million dollar investment made to the State of Kentucky by Oleg Deripaska, the pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch, in exchange for Moscow Mitch’s shepherding of legislation that allowed lifting of sanctions against Deripaska’s company, Rusal. Link. (Politico)

A lot of Republicans are in it up to their eyebrows with the Russians.

[slumtrimpet]

@QuickSilver

I can believe that a small handful might be compromised in some way. It’s possible. That all GOP senators and most reps are compromised in this way begs credulity. That Putin made Trump into a useful idiot is beyond shadow of a doubt. That Putin Svengali’d his way through the entire GOP congress is simply not plausible.

How about the National Republican Party? Could that be compromised?
I find it interesting that so many Republican congress critters are (or have) stepping down.

[QuickSilver]

@Aspenglow

I understand your incredulity, but in fact there are more bits of evidence to support a sizeable number of Republicans being compromised by Russians, wittingly or unwittingly, than many realize.

Republicans received Russian money funneled through the NRA in support of their campaigns. (NPR) Hard to nail this one down since Republicans have blocked further investigation, but roughly 30 million dollars was donated via the NRA to Republicans and Trump in 2016 – significantly more than they had ever donated in any past election.

Former House member Pete Sessions received a sizeable campaign contribution from Lev Parnas’s shell company, Fraud Guarantee, with a “request” to write a letter to Mike Pompeo to ask for removal of Ukraine Ambassador Marie Yovanovich. The source of the money is purported to be Russian. Additionally, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman made numerous donations to GOP members at various times through several shell companies, including Fraud Guarantee and Loan Crime Investigation Group, among others. Documented donations flowed to Kevin McCarthy, 20 Republican state parties and others in 2016.

Here is an article that details those donations. (Rolling Stone)

Lastly, don’t overlook the 200 million dollar investment made to the State of Kentucky by Oleg Deripaska, the pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarch, in exchange for Moscow Mitch’s shepherding of legislation that allowed lifting of sanctions against Deripaska’s company, Rusal. Link. (Politico)

A lot of Republicans are in it up to their eyebrows with the Russians.

Fuck me. TIL.