I fucked up the spelling of Ukranian, and it’s too late to edit, but thanks!
Worrying things we know so far:
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The call - in which President Trump (having withheld money from Ukraine that was allocated by Congress) indicated he wanted a “favor” and discussed an investigation of Biden’s family. Trump urged Zelinsky to work closely with Barr and Guliani to do this “investigation”
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The subsequent cover-up and hiding of the documentary evidence of this call, described by a White House official as "an abuse of this electronic system because the call did not contain anything remotely sensitive from a national security perspective,”
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The trip by Guliani on August 2 to meet with Andriy Yermak, an adviser to Mr. Zelensky as a “direct follow-up” about the “cases” discussed in the phone call. Also, the contacts Mr. Giuliani made to Mr. Zelensky’s chief of staff, Andriy Bohdan, and the head of Ukraine’s security service, Ivan Bakanov, also about Trump’s phone call. Note that Mr. Guliani is not a member of the government - he is a private lawyer hired by Mr. Trump for private business.
QFT
Come to think of it, I’ve never seen even a photo of Hunter Biden.
(If Hunter Biden does in fact exist, please do not send me photos of him)
That just makes it more realistic.
If the allegations against the administration are true, I would support impeachment and conviction. If the president did in fact offer a quid pro quo via Mr. Gulliani, whereupon the Ukrainian government would investigate a political rival’s family for military aid, I would classify such political dirt as solicitation a thing of value from a foreign national under 52 U.S.C. § 30121. Such an offense is, in my opinion, an attempt to subvert the political process (even if it were not a crime under the U.S. Code), and constitutes one of the “high crimes and misdemeanors” mentioned in Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution.
I haven’t seen the evidence, nor am I in a position to do so, therefore I reserve judgement as to the outcome. That means I am in favor of an investigation, sworn depositions by Mr. Gulliani, Mr. Barr, Mr. Vulker, and Mr. Sondland.
As I have mentioned in another thread, I don’t think such an investigation necessarily needs to be conducted in public unless and until elements of it are actually used to substantiate articles of impeachment. This also means I won’t be making a personal judgement until the articles of impeachment are actually presented.
~Max
Tramp’s UN ambassador and Putin’s defense minister, both cabinet officers, declared last year that Russia is waging war on the US with military forces. How much support can a USAnian provide without committing treason? I suspect Tramp has a fair idea - hence his fear.
Verbatim from the phone call, with nothing left out:
That’s the sequence of remarks. Zelensky mentions aid and Trump says he wants a favor–having just emphasized that the US does “a lot” for Ukraine but that the situation is not “reciprocal.”
The defense of Trump that he “didn’t even mention the financial aid” is absurd given the actual facts of the conversation. The Ukrainian says he is grateful for the defense aid, and Trump replies that he wants a favor. Obviously Trump is replying to the man with whom he is in conversation.
The theory that no crime is committed if certain words are avoided has been tried in court by many organized crime figures. It doesn’t work. Avoiding certain words is not a defense if the meaning of a conversation is open and available for all to see.
A friend of mine in Ukraine shared a meme from Ukrainian social media. It shows Zelensky in a wig and blue dress and reads: “Monica Zelensky. Available for hire to bring impeachment against any U.S. President.”
I know! That quote jumped out at me, too, and it really does highlight the absurdity of the situation we’re in, and the total moral bankruptcy of the Republican Party in the Age of Trump.
The obvious response is ‘he’s setting up an insanity defense.’
But seriously, he knows Trump will throw him under the bus without a second thought. If Trump believes he can save himself by claiming ‘it was all Rudy, it was all his idea, he made me say those things, he was free-lancing, I never told him to extort the Ukraine president, it was all Rudy,’ then of course he will do so.
Giuliani knows this. He’s going to be flailing pretty manically until this is settled, one way or another.
Just found this. Amazing. From May 18th:
When they make the movie, this line’s gonna be in there. And the screenwriters will get panned for putting obvious villain dialogue in the villain’s mouth.
I think they’ll cast Buddy Pine to play Giuliani.
I supported Giuliani for president. I don’t know what to say for myself.
Don’t feel bad. If McCain has gotten the nomination in 2000 instead of W., I would have given serious consideration (not knowing then what I knew in later years) to voting Republican for the first time in my life. So, I’ve been there, mate.
Hey, millions thought he was smart, decent, and competent. The covers of major periodicals even said so.
I suppose Nero probably had some supporters in his earlier years, too. People don’t always show their true colors right away.
I see it as straight up extortion. Not quid pro quo.
To put it bluntly - “Do this for me, or you are gonna be fucked”. That’s not quid pro quo, it’s not bribery. It’s extortion.
I can’t keep up with this thread, so apologies if this has already been posted.
If you have ever seen “The Godfather”, this is priceless: https://twitter.com/larrynoble_dc/status/1176980507667652608?s=21
I think he just went bonkers over time. There’s some Trump sycophants who are in it for real, some that are putting on an act to maintain political power, and a few who just went bonkers. Rudy is not mentally healthy.