He is special, in a not-going-to-make-a-short-bus-reference way.
So today the WH says they won’t cooperate with any of this.
Pence says he won’t turn over requested documents.
There’s an incoming subpoena coming to the WH tonight, which will be ignored.
McConnell released a campaign ad vowing to block any attempts at impeachment (this one is especially egregious–essentially a promise to hold Trump above any law or consequence REGARDLESS of what crimes are uncovered. He’s pre-emptively made up his mind that nothing Trump has or could do will have consequences).
Oh and the Ukraine is re-opening an investigation regarding the company Hunter Biden was involved with.
So Trump asked for foreign interference in our election–and IS APPARENTLY GETTING IT NOW–and the GOP is just not having any dissent. All very fascist.
What happens? Does it go to court? Can they be legally compelled to cooperate?
Do they change the laws to keep doing what they are doing?
If they flout the democratic process this boldly now, what guarantee is there that they will hand over power when (if?) Trump loses in 2020?
Chuck Todd (who sounded dejected or afraid–or maybe just exhausted) just said something along the lines (paraphrasing): “if the GOP goes along with this, we will have to evaluate if we still have a democracy.”
I want to point out that a slim majority supports a Impeachment inquiry, not the same as Impeachment.
But yes, some time ago I said this was a foolish act as the public was against it. Now, they are somewhat on board.
The Trump campaign can investigate political rivals, but can’t use the government to do it.
The Justice Department/FBI can investigate Trump’s political rivals, but it is inappropriate for Trump to be involved in any way, and it should begin such an investigation only if it has legitimate grounds that would trigger an investigation of anyone else. It is an abuse of power for Trump to push for or instigate an investigation that benefits him.
It is an abuse of power and violative of campaign and election laws for Trump to ask foreign agents to investigate his political rivals. Even if there were a legitimate domestic investigation happening, Trump should not be involved, and should not be advancing it in a way that benefits him.
It is bribery or gratuity and some species of theft for the president to put a hold on government funds or military aid bound for a foreign government, pending that government’s agreement to do Trump personal favors.
It is disloyal to United States’ interests to hold up foreign and military aid appropriated by Congress to an ally that is actively engaged in hostilities with a foreign power whose activities we oppose, and that we generally regard as hostile to the US, in order to extort personal favors from the ally.
Max S., I get what you are getting at. You don’t want to set precedents that could unfairly be used against a more sane president in the future, or you want to be sure that there is a principled basis behind the arguments, which holds up when applied to other presidents. I think the above principles are sound. I think that Trump has severely blurred the line on how independent the Justice Department is supposed to be, but I’m positive that a president should never ever be involved in the advancement of even a legitimate investigation of a political rival. A president should never ever be holding up foreign aid and diplomatic gestures in exchange for personal favors, let alone when the requests are for foreign governments to involve themselves in our elections.
This is where we need a like button.
The biggest difference was that when Mueller was working, everything was top secret. There were hardly any leaks. Nobody knew what was up until suddenly, boom, huge report.
Whereas with this investigation, everything is out in the open. Even specifics that happened behind closed doors we know what’s going on.
This is one of the reasons why everything seems so hyper paced right now. We were used to knowing nothing for months at a time whereas now we’re getting brand new updates practically hourly.
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A member of the New York Times editorial board made this call today, to do essentially what you are talking about, fight fire with fire. Some are taking it as satire, but I’m not so sure. I think he is being at least half serious. The idea is actually one I find very tempting, even thrilling, but it also seems like a very dangerous road to go down.
I just cannot…
Guys, the problem with what Trump is doing is he is violating the central precept of being a sovereign State: self-determination of the State’s destiny via its own political systems.
To invite foreign governments to interfere in these processes, as Trump did in 2016 and beyond, is to literally give up our sovereignty to those who did assist. It is to admit that the United States is ungovernable. It is… insane… to suggest that Elizabeth Warren should ask Putin or Xin or anyone else for a better deal.
In addition, it makes the current situation disappear as now the official position of both parties that “collusion” is fine, cancelling the impeachment hearings. And lastly, it invites all governments to get in on the plundering of the United States before Russia, et al, get all the good assets.
Cruz and Graham (among others) will wait to see how SCOTUS views what’s been going on. The moment they see that the SC is not buying the Executive’s bullshit, will be the moment they begin to become outraged at Trump’s conduct.
Uh oh, the floodgates are open.
*
"A second intelligence official who was alarmed by President Trump’s dealings with Ukraine is weighing whether to file his own formal whistle-blower complaint and testify to Congress, according to two people briefed on the matter.
The official has more direct information about the events than the first whistle-blower, whose complaint that Mr. Trump was using his power to get Ukraine to investigate his political rivals touched off an impeachment inquiry. The second official is among those interviewed by the intelligence community inspector general to corroborate the allegations of the original whistle-blower, one of the people said."*
The only problem with this is that you are sane.
So what happens next:
The drumbeat is kept up that the “media is the enemy of the people”. (certain media). Media purge begins at Fox news - getting rid of anyone against Trump.
Unfortunately, CNN, MSNBC news departments must be shut down by the FCC for violating laws. Which ones? We will tell you later.
Certain congressional democrats are investigated by the Justice Department. Arrests are made. Serious crimes have been committed by Democrats. Not to worry - the Justice department are keeping you safe.
Oh, now the house has a Republican majority because these lawbreakers have been removed. Oh well, we have a democracy right? Now the Will Of The People can be served. House moves to eliminate impeachment proceedings.
More democrats are arrested. They are lawbreakers.
Riots break out - SOCIALISTS! ANTIFA! CRIMINALS! Mass arrests are conducted. WE MUST CRACK DOWN ON THE LEFTIST SOCIALISTS!
Because of this socialist ANTIFA unrest, elections are not possible. Thankfully, Trump and the Justice dept. knows The Will Of The People, and Trump agrees to stay on in these troubling times.
<<Oh,you silly EP. This can NEVER happen here. NEVER.>>
I need to catch up with the rest of the thread, but want to make two comments on its most recent posts:
Excellent post. I’m interested to see what Max S. has to say about it. The lines you draw for presidential involvement have not been drawn by Max S. in previous comments, and if Max S. sees them as being unreasonable, I’d be curious as to whatever basis Max S. can find for making that case.
Another excellent post. The Democrats cannot and must not embrace the lawlessness exhibited by Trump and his enablers.
How did you manage to access Stephen Miller’s daydreams?
Ha! I almost added a line at the end that I’m pretty sure that Miller is doodling plans like this at his desk as we speak…
Oh, you just know he’d try to make it happen if he thought he could do so without it ending in a life sentence.
Sondland is the ambassador to the EU. Why exactly is he involved in decisions in Ukraine at all?
My guess is that he’s a real estate guy who donated tons of cash to Trump. That’s what counts.
Looks like he is a hotelier. And a big Trump donor.
It also seems like I stayed in one his hotels, The Paramount, when I saw Elvis Costello last December in Seattle. Nice joint.
And investigate Trumps children.
But, no. Ya gotta draw the line somewhere. Of course Trump has already crossed that line. Let’s not drop down to Trumps level.
I’m not a parent, but I do know that you should not try to stop a tantrum, by throwing a tantrum yourself. Best to lead by example, someone needs to be the adult.
When dealing with Trump, that means everyone that deals with Trump needs to be an adult. Wrestling pigs is perhaps a good analogy.
Hard to be an Adult when handling a 250lb toddler, but that’s what we have to do. I think we can take comfort that Trump does not know how to deal with rational, reasonable responses to his tantrums. He expects to either be yelled at (wherein he just increases the volume) or coddled. When faced with facts, Trump does not know what to do.