the two towers movie review

Cafe Society
21

Several people have mentioned Sam’s speech at the end. I haven’t seen the film yet, but I’m wondering if this might be the part in the book when Frodo and Sam are talking about themselves as if they were characters in a story? I really liked that passage in the book, and I was hoping they’d find a way to work it into the film. It also seemed like it might be a good place to end, since Shelob isn’t until the third film. Is that it?

You can feel free to spoil it for me (in a spoiler tag), since I’m seeing it this evening… 7 hours! :smiley:

22

Well, here we go:

That speech is in, briefly, but everyone is talking about the speech Sam gives to Frodo at Osgiliard about how we have to do things we don’t want to, cause in the great stories people didn’t give up, and blah blah blah.

23

Cool… thanks bouv. :slight_smile:

24

I saw it this morning (one of the advantages of working at a technology company full of geeks: getting to go off as a group to see movies on company time), and I wanted to highlight the above comment.

I thought Gollum had one of the best performances in the film, and he’s a revolutionary achievement. This isn’t because he’s an entirely convincing visual effect — he isn’t. He’s still pretty obviously computer-generated.

However, he’s entirely emotionally convincing.

The obvious point of comparison, Jar-Jar Binks, suffers because, to put it simply, we just don’t buy him as a character. Technically, he’s remarkable, but on an emotional and narrative level, he’s completely phony.

Gollum, on the other hand, while just as remarkable technically, convinces because we do buy him as a character. We understand his dilemma, we see his conflict, and we fairly quickly quit thinking about him as a visual effect. By the end of the film, when he’s deciding whether or not to betray Frodo and Sam, we have forgotten that he’s a collection of pixels, and are watching Gollum, as Gollum, wrestle with an ethical question in his twisted brain.

The rest of the movie is just as amazing, though I agree with what’s been said above: The Arwen stuff was a big indigestible blob right in the middle of the film, Aragorn’s “death” was kind of hokey (check out the cliched shot looking up at the people standing at the edge of the cliff), and the Repeatedly Glowing Gandalf was a bit much.

Otherwise, this is a monumental feat of imagination and physical production. I want to see the third movie NOW.

P.S. Anyone read Ebert’s review? He clearly believes he’s the Defender of Tolkien, but I think he has his head up his ass, and doesn’t remember the original book and its themes half as well as he thinks he does.

25

I’m mixed on the whole Arwen thing.

On one hand, I really like the obvious division Aragorn feels - “If I allow this woman to love me I am killing her.” I think it adds a lot to the triangle (you never really got a feeling for it in the books, other than Eowyn mooning over Aragorn) - adds some humanity to Aragorn.

But it needed to be better done. Should have been a single quick scene in this movie. And Arwen is like a couple hundred years old. Daddy should not be treating her like a sixteen year old child. And she shouldn’t be acting like one. The Elrond scene with “you aren’t doing this to my daughter” was over the top.

26

I was very lucky; my roommate suggested we just go by the theatre at 10:00 & see if they had any tickets to the 12:01 am showing. I was certain they wouldn’t, but to my pleasant surprise they did! We ran into 5 friends from work there so all 7 of sat together. Now to the review:

I also thought Gollum was great. He came across as more of a sympathetic character in the film than I thought he was in the books. And they’ve forshadowed his betrayal of the hobbits pretty well.

I was disappointed with the handling of Faramir. I viewed him & Boromir as something like Michael & Sonny Corleone; the eldest son was not as wise & reflective as the younger, a rash hothead by comparison.

I thought it could have done without Aragorn’s falling & the whole floating-in-the-river thing, the hobbits at Osgiliard, the Arwen backstory. I actually didn’t mind the elves showing up at Helm’s Deep; I thought it helped the story. Another shot at the ‘last alliance of men & elves’.

Kudos to the animation team. The Ents were great, the Black Gate was fucking incredible. And the wolves, Man! They looked like giant hyenas; really scary!

27

Ebert’s hangup, as it was with the first film, is that he thinks the role of the hobbits is being shortchanged. I don’t think he’s actually read the books, I think he’s just heard that it’s supposed to be about the fate of the world hanging on these little hobbits. If that’s what he wants, and he’d read the books, then he’d know that Return of the King will give him that. RotK is when Merry and Pippin really shine. And there’s plenty of Sam/Frodo storyline left, because the climb through Cirith Ungol was pushed to the third film. So he shouldn’t be counting out even his very narrow vision of Tolkien’s intent quite yet.

BTW, anyone think that perhaps with Cirith Ungol pushed back to RotK and thus the Frodo/Sam storyline of RotK considerably extended, we’re going to get Mount Doom (ch3 book 6) and the big fight (end of book 5) at the same time in the movie perhaps? Maybe they’re going to shortchange us on all the sorrowful aftermath and the sense of loss that concludes the trilogy. I hope not.

28

So weak…can’t review movie.

I’m literally overwhelmed. I sat in the second row at the biggest theater I could find. It was like a friggin’ IMAX.

And can I just say that there are waaaay too many rugged, attractive people in this series? I kept getting distracted by Aragorn’s manly stubble.

I was a little disappointed about all the changes from the book, but it all seemed to work quite well. Overall, I agree with everything that everybody else said, although I have one complaint that nobody else has mentioned. There were several times when I felt a bit too close to Gollum’s loincloth. Other than that, the movie was just about perfect.

29

I didn’t really think the business with Elrond and Arwen was all that overdone. Anyone who’s EVER really been in love knows that LOVE CAN MAKE YOU STUPID!

I did kind of wonder why we washed Aragorn out of the movie for a while. Whatthehell was up with that? It’s not like most of us didn’t KNOW he was coming back…

I felt that Sam’s speech was BADLY overplayed, though. Lemme get this straight, Faramir hijacks the hobbits and the Ring, gonna take’m back to Gondor and use’m against Sauron… and suddenly, he finds out some ugly truths about his brother, listens to Sam make a speech, and all of a sudden, he’s all sweetness and light and nobility? Whatthehell’s up with that? What was wrong with the way the book handled it? Then again, we couldn’t have addressed that without bringing Denethor in and hashing through Faramir and Boromir and sibling rivalry, and all that, and the movie was already running a bit long…

But it’s not a bad movie. Quite the reverse, actually. It actually manages to handle a whole LOT of subject matter very deftly, and carries us through the story wonderfully.

Can’t WAIT to see Eowyn kick the Witch King’s ass in the next movie, though…

30

I also wonder about ROTK. Will they be able to get ROTK in 3 hours?

They need to include from TTT (SPOILERS!):

Gandalf and Saruman at Isengard
Pippin and the Palantir
Aragorn to Paths of the Dead
Frodo vs Shelob

And then actually get into ROTK, and I’m sure Pelennor Fields will be much more involved than Helm’s Deep. Not to mention the Morannon battle and I imagine they’ll show Pelargir (vs Umbar) in real-time (to get the screentime for Aragorn, Legolas, & Gimli).

Then again, the book is much shorter than the other two (since a good 1/4 is Appendices), and they can pretty much wrap things up after Mount Doom. We already know that the Scouring won’t be there and I doubt they’ll bother with the post-Minas Tirith farewell tour on the way back to the Shire.

Granted, the shortness of the ROTK book means it won’t be too difficult to tie up loose ends, but there does seem to be a lot to cover.

31

I agree HubZilla. I don’t see how they’re possibly going to do RotK without leaving some major stuff behind. I was really dissapointed that Merry and Pippin’s relationship with Treebeard was played down and they didn’t get to drink the Ent Draughts.
I haven’t read the books in awhile so could someone clarify some things for me?
Denethur was in TTT, no?

Merry and Pippen met Gandalf & Co. before the sacking of Isengard and therefore weren’t present at said sacking, no?

There were Huorns, Southrons (Southrons = “Wild Men”, right?) and Oliphants at Helm’s Deep, weren’t there?

Ummm, consarn it I had some more questions but I forgot already. I’ll be back.

32

Gollum looked Asian to me. In fact, like James Hong, veteran character actor. I was unconvinced, but some more rendering a few years down the road should held.

I liked the addition of the Elves at Helm’s deep, but I would definitely put Elven archers on the higher Hornburg walls so that they could pick off Orcs with impunity. A waste of good archers IMHO.

I loved the balrog sequence, and the jump from the subterrainean lake to the top of the mountain with no explanation of how they got there leaves me hoping for another 3 minutes of the battle in the extended version.

I detested Gandalf saying that he had been on earth for 300 lifetimes of men, that gives away too much of the mystery.

Loved Grima. The actor deserves best supporting. Did not like jealous Elrond the father worried about mortality. Did not like the detour to Osgilith, especially ringwraith scene, but I see where Jackson is going with it: Sauron will think the ring is in the direction of Minas Tirith, and the explication for the battle of Pelannor fields will be laid already.

Christopher Lee beside himself at the Ents was fantastic.

This could use a whole hour of further footage if it is good.

33

Fantastic movie. Gollum (both the actor and the computer guys) should get an Oscar nomination for best supporting actor. And I’m dead serious about that. It’s an awesome performance. The CGI works amazingly well for most (but not quite all) of the Gollum scenes.

This has to have been the most difficult of the three films, simply because the narrative is so fractured. For the most part, however, I thought they pulled it off very well. And visually, I just can’t believe how perfectly Jackson & Co. captured the book. I mean, there were moments looking at Helm’s Deep where it was precisely how I’d seen it in the book.

Yes, there are some missteps. I cannot for the life of me figure out why they felt the need to screw with Faramir. I get the need to show that they really need to destroy the ring to keep it out of anybody’s hands, but come on, that whole take-them-to-Osgiliath thing added nothing at all to the movie. Plus, Faramir’s decision to let the hobbits go is completely inexplicable. Okay, you were going to take the ring, then you see Frodo trying to hand the ring over to the Nazgul, and so now you’re just going to let him go? Yeah, right.

I actually liked the intermission, a/k/a the Aragorn & Arwen flashback dream thing. It is the perfect time to leave for the restroom. Jackson was very thoughtful on putting that right in the middle of a three hour movie.

On the whole, though, it is a wonderful movie. I’ll be seeing it at least a couple more times in the theater, and I’ll be buying whatever DVD versions the studio throws our way. And I’ll be driving extra careful and eating very healthy for the next year, because I’m taking no chances on missing the next film. That’s right, Peter Jackson, you’ve made me your bitch.

34

Jackson had said this one was going to deviate the most from the books so I was prepared for it. But I was still annoyed when Haldir died, dammit. He was my second favorite elf.

Overall, I loved it. Gollum’s MPD was masterfully done, Legolas was great (needs more screen time :wink: ) and I loved the battle scenes and, holy crap, the Rohan sets were gorgeous.

Already planning my next trip to the theater.

35

Thoughts on the possible editing of RTK:

If you combine the Battle of the Pelenor Fields somehow with the battle of the Morannon and make it one battle, and have the Ringbearer fullfill the Quest during same, you shave a good hour off the movie. Not saying if this is a good or bad route to take, but I’d bet it was considered. It does present some sequence problems in the plot, obviously.

Stuff they must, IMHO, keep in RoTK:

  • We need a Saruman denouement, deferred from TTT
  • Shelob
  • Cirith Ungol escape by F & S.
  • Siege of Minas Tirith
  • Ride of the Rohirrim, horns @ dawn
  • Gandalf confronting the Nazgul Lord
  • Eowyn (&Merry) slaying NL
  • Denethor’s madness
  • Mount Doom ring-toss & fingerbiting contest.
  • Big ‘we won! whooo!’ scenes. Aragorn crowned King, weds Arwen, see story page 6.

Save screen time by modifying this:

  • Paths of the dead. Condense it or dispense with it. The important thing is Aragorn coming in the Nick Of Time™ to save the day at Da Big Battle. He can just show up late with any big army. Maybe he just rides with Rohan. .5 - 1 hour saved.

  • Omit scouring of the Shire and much trudging about from Gondor->Rivendell->Shire. We’ve been there already. Somehow Gandalf and Frodo and Bilbo still sail to ‘heaven’, but not from the Grey Havens. Heck, there’s a haven close to Imrahil’s home town, let them leave from there. We change it so that Bilbo came to Arwen’s wedding after all, and then they all take a cab to the pier. At least an hour saved.

Dispense with:

  • Eowyn & Faramir’s relationship. It wasn’t even that great in the book.
  • Houses of healing scenes. “The hands of the King are the hands of a healer, so shalt the rightful king be known.” Sure, but Aragorn kicked butt in the big battle, so we’re already pretty sure.
  • Ghan-buri-ghan. The Rohirrim can just follow the street signs.
  • Omit much Mordor trudging. 10 minutes of screen time can establish what an awful hike it is & how brave and valient our Hobbits are.
  • The Last Debate. Our strategy was committed already.
  • Battle of Morranon (see above). Combine w/ Pellenor maybe. At least omit much trudging from the Crossroads to the BlackGate.

OK, we’re down to 30 minutes, tops. :slight_smile:

End of the movies: After a lapse of years, Aragorn’s death, then later Arwen at his graveside, much sorrow; passing of Arwen. Fade to black.

36

I also wondered what was the point of bringing a thousand pikes to a seige? I mean, Saruman’s army wouldn’t have thought to need pikes. They ended up needing them to face the cavalry charge at the end, but they weren’t anticipating that, so why so many? Just to look cool in the scene, I suppose.

37

Actually, she’s more like a couple thousand years old… so the whole thing is even more ridiculous.

Just saw it the first time. Will see again tomorrow. Will have more coherant thoughts then.

For now, just … Wow. And yay. And wow for the Ents drop-kicking orcs. and yay. :smiley:
First Time Viewing favorite moment:

Upon seeing Aragorn is not in fact dead, practically the first thing out of Legolas’ mouth is: “You look awful.” (Because I make sure to brush my hair 100 strokes every night no matter how many warg-riding orcs I’ve had to battle. ::hair toss:: )

Also I loved how the music for the elves marching into Helms Deep was the background music for Lothlorien in the previous movie, turned into a military-sounding march. The pretty people are coming to kick some ass… so perfect.

In conclusion…

FORTH EORLINGAS!

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

38

When I left the theater there was a long line of people waiting to get in, and I was tempted to walk past them saying, “Man! Who would have thought that Sauron was going to turn out to be Frodo’s father!”

Anyway, I thought it was even better than the first one. Some of the set designs, especially Theoden’s hall and the Black Gate, are just incredible.

39

I saw the midnight show Tuesday and frikkin’ loved it. I haven’t read the books since junior high, so I wasn’t really bothered by any changes although my boyfriend is a Tolkien geek… even he loved it.
I was bothered a little bit by the comedy bits with Gimli, and everytime Wormtongue was onscreen I kept thinking “That’s Chucky!” but i really dug the movie.

40

Maybe she has a bad habit of falling for mortal guys, then moping around for a century or two after they die, only to hook up with another mortal guy & Elrond is just sick of seeing it. :smiley: