Does Gollum have a pee-pee? I kept trying to catch a glance under that flapping loincloth, and the best that I could tell was…owning a ring of power for 600 years will take your balls off.
Saw it last night…
My peeves (apart from those I have seen already mentioned above) -
[ul][li]Theoden’s sickness portrayed as some kind of possesion/magical spell rather than the subtle poisoning of mind (and body?) by a Wormtongue, that would havegone unnoticed until it was too late.[/li][li]The twisting of the “Two Towers” name to refer to Barad Dur and Isengard rather than Minas Morgul and Tirith (which I guess means that Minas Morgul will not feature in ROTK…)[/li][li]The “Olympic Torch Bearer” at Helm’s Deep[/ul][/li]Things I loved -
[ul][li]Gimli on a horse - actually most of the Gimli humour!![/li][li]The “rattlesnake” theme music used for Grima[/li][li]Treebeard[/ul][/li]Overall though, I must admit that I was able to let go of the changes and just enjoy the movie, which I wasn’t able to do with the FOTR - I guess I must now go and watch it again just to enjoy…
Grim
To be fair, the Rohirrim are the horse lords, so you could pretty much bank on facing a cavalry charge at some point during the war… although having it come out of the dining room (or down a 80 degree slope) would take the most hardened battle tactician by surprise!!
Grim
More things to comment on:
You know, I loved The Man From Snowy River as much as the next guy, but apparently everyone from New Zealand or Australia finds the need to shoehorn a reference into their movie. I just wish Peter Jackson had gone with the “girl with a horseface” instead of the “riding down a cliff at full gallop” route.
Grima was great, but Gollum gets Best Supporting.
Why did they go from so many on-location shots and CGI backgrounds to that fingerpainted backdrop for the Merry/Pippin/Treebeard Fangorn romp? I was waiting for King Friday to come out and declare it Three Corner Hat Day.
Sweet sassy molassy Miranda Ott is hot! Humina humina humina… I’d bear her shield any day.
Was there something weird about the Nazgul cam? Can’t place my finger on it, just something out of place.
I also like the Gimli humor. “Toss me” was great, as was the quip about dwarves not being good long-distance runners, but are unstoppable in a sprint. Anyone remember a quote for that? “Keep breathing, that’s the key.”
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by grimpixie *
My peeves:
[ul][li]The twisting of the “Two Towers” name to refer to Barad Dur and Isengard rather than Minas Morgul and Tirith (which I guess means that Minas Morgul will not feature in ROTK…)[/ul][/li][/QUOTE]
I always thought that the two towers referred to in the eponymous title were Orthanc (which is kind of the center of action for the first part of the book) and Minas Morgul. Minas Tirith isn’t even in there much at all.
But I could be wrong…
Quix
Credentials: Read the books twice, seen the first movie 5 times.
Saw TTT last night, and thought is was great but definitely could have been better.
Cons:
- the whole interlude with Arwen/Elrond/Aragorn. Totally killed the momentum of the movie, and seemed to be thrown in purely for the ladies’ benenfit.
- Helm’s deep didn’t live up to the hype. Still a nice battle scene, but it did end too abruptly. Gandalf and Eomer appear, they charge, and then the battle’s over.
- The thrashing of Isengard by the ents. My enduring image from the books is of the ents really attacking and breaking apart the stone and rocks of Isengard. There was maybe 2 quickly cut scenes of this in the film. I would have liked to see more of this.
Pros:
- First and foremost, Gollum was fantastic. After the first few moments where I kept thinking how weird he looked compared to what I was expecting, it was really easy to forget he was computer generated. The best job I’ve ever seen of a bunch of pixels emoting.
- Wormtongue: When first I heard Brad Dourif was cast as Grima I had mixed feelings. I definitely thought he was slimy enough to pull it off, but I was worried that he would just do a straight rehashing of his character in “Dune”. Well, I needn’t have worried, he did a great job.
- Legolas: he was awesome in the the scene with the wargs.
Sorry, it’s been awhile since the books - What’s the difference between Minas Morgul and Barad-dur? I thought they were the same thing and Barad-dur was just the Dwarven (or Mordor tongue?) name for it?
There’s a lot of argument over exactly which two towers the title refers to (Isengard is clearly one of them and I’ve always been partial to Minas Morgul but Baradur is fine). I’m glad that Jackson pinned it down for his movie since now people who haven’t read the book can’t complain about not understanding the title. 
I was surpised at how much more wandering from the book there was in TTT than in FotR. I can understand why the changes were made but I’m not fond of a lot of them. For example, without the Shelob climax Frodo’s portion of TTT is the most boring thing in LotR so to give him something more exciting to do they give Gollum a bit more clear and forceful personality split and change Faramir from the guy who was everything Boromir was not to almost the same character. The Osgiliath scenes don’t make any sense; Faramir doesn’t understand the Ring in detail so why should he just let them go on their own to destroy it? Especially in the middle of a battle when they have to cross through enemy lines? In the book his reasoning was clear (he did have a bit more knowledge than his brother and didn’t want the thing and though he didn’t want to let the hobbits go off on their own he had other duties), but in the movie he just sends them off with no help.
I much preferred the book’s method of handling Theoden at the start. It made Grima much less an obvious villain (though he certainly could be spotted for what he was quickly) if he was just manipulating Theoden. Having Sauraman work directly gave us something to keep Sauraman as villain in the forefront but that scene didn’t really fit with the more muted state of magic in Middle Earth.
The thing I really didn’t like changing, though, was the movement to Helm’s Deep. One might point out that in the book Gandalf is the one who says “Go to Helm’s Deep!” but just being different from the book isn’t a criticism. However Gandalf’s complete and total lack of tactical sense is. “There’s no way out of that canyon!” Yeah, how about that. Perhaps you should… I don’t know… take advantage of that (which they didn’t even do at the end). Gandalf wants Theoden to march out with a few hundred warriors to meet the armies of Isengard on an open field. Now even assuming that Gandalf can get help to them in time this is an astoundingly bad plan especially for someone who has direct intelligence regarding the strength of Sauraman’s forces (he was there a few days ago and could see it with his own eyes). Does he really think that a handful of men can stand in the open against ten thousand? That an army of two thousand calvary can just ride in and save them? The only reason they held out as long as they did was because they were in a fortress. Without Sauraman’s explosives they likely could have held off the Orc army for a few days (especially with the elves) and then when Gandalf arives they have the orcs trapped between the charge and the fortress walls. It should have been a massacre except that Gandalf didn’t bother cutting off the retreat in the canyon with no other exit letting half the army run away to do more damage as they go. The impression the film is trying to make is one of Theoden being arogant and getting them in a bad situation while Gandalf is the brilliant savior who everyone should have listened to from the beginning, but it makes Gandalf look like a moron I would never trust with my army and in RotK his leadership is supposed to be an important part. Of all the changes from the book to the movie this is the one that really got under my skin since for the sake of some artificial tension a lot of things are thrown off kilter.
But other than that the movie continued to be fairly good; I liked Fellowship better but it hasn’t dampened my enthusiasm for Return of the King.
Just need to mention that, as a lady, I thought this was just as much of a bathroom break moment as all the guys I went with.
Carry on.
Am I the only one who percieved a totaly Elvish pun in Arwen & Elrond’s arguement?
Elrond: There is no hope
Arwen: There is hope
The word for hope is estel, which Arwen also uses to mean trust in another scene.
As we all know, When Aragorn was young and lived in Rivendell, he used a different name so as to protect him from assasination and the knowlege of Sauron’s spies. That name was Estel.
So, I think Arwen is punning that Aragorn (Estel) is the last hope for Middle-earth. Aragorn’s mother Gilraen made a similar pun the last time he saw her: Onen i-Estel Edain, u-chebin estel anim which means “I have given Hope to the Dunedain; I have kept no hope for myself.”
Geez Louise, I am such a geek.
BTW, I did think the Elrond arguement was a bit over the top BUT I loved them showing what happens at the very end of Aragorn’s life. Although Elrond makes it out to be a dire warning it is almost exactly as described in “The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen” and that part of the story gives me chills. For those who haven’t read that appendix over and over:
"[in death] Then a great beauty was revealed in him so that all who after came there looked on him in wonder; for they saw that the grace of his youth, and the valour of his manhood, and the wisdom and majesty of his age were blended together. And long there he lay, an image of the splendour of the Kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world.
But Arwen went forth from the House, and the light of her eyes was quenched, and it seemed to her people that she had become cold and grey as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to all whom she had loved; and she went out fom the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lorien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came. Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone, and the land was silent.
There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed…"
Exactly. If Jackson wanted to add scenes for me or my female friens there would have been more shots of Aragor and Legolas running… or riding on horses… or shooting, hacking, and ass kicking… ::pant:: Did I mention the running??
My reaction to TT is similar to that of my first viewing of FOTR. I was so involved with what’s in, what’s out, what’s changed, what works, that I lost track of the movie. The second viewing was much better, and I"m looking forward to a second viewing of TT.
First take: fantastic, incredible, movie, with some unbelievable effects/shots/scenes/characters.
Now to the nitpitcks:
What I didn’t like:
One too many Arwen flashbacks.
Gimli as comic relief is fine, but I would’ve liked more of a balance with Gimli the kick-ass axe-wielding machine (“never have I seen an axe wielded thus” wasn’t in the movie).
Osgiliath. This just didn’t work. I don’t understand why PJ wanted to put the battle for Osgiliath in–it occurred 50 years before the events of the trilogy. And it doesn’t look right–it looks like it was filmed indoors.
The exorcism of Theoden. PJ made the same mistake here as with the Mirror of Galadriel: he took something fairly subtle in the book, and goes way over the top.
No huorns.
Neutral:
PJ is setting up some tension in the relationship between Arwen & Aragorn–does she stay or does she go. If you’re going to have a major role for Arwen, this makes sense, I guess.
Faramir as less-than-noble: I’m ok with that.
The Oliphaunts were just a bit too big.
Theoden is weaker than he should be, but this is to make Aragorn look more noble in comparison.
The fantastic:
Gandalf & the Balrog as the opening scene.
The dead marshes
The Black Gate
Flying Nazgul
The easterlings marching up to the Black Gate.
Eowyn as a role, and Miranda Otto as an actress.
Wormtongue/Brad Dourif-ditto.
Gollum! Totally works. (He’s supposed to look like Andy Serkis, but I thought he was a dead ringer for Peter Lorre.)
Elven archers at Helm’s Deep: blasphemous deviation from the book, but a really spectacular entrance. I loved it!
The destruction of Isengard. Fantastic.
Some of my favorite TT book scenes are not in–hopefully just deferred until ROTK. (The Voice of Saruman, The Palantir, Minas Morgul–I want to see the noxious river, the green glow, the revolving tower, the host of Mordor issuing forth…). And of course, Cirith Ungol–but I already knew that was pushed back.
I thought it was necessary for those who haven’t read the books to really understand the significance of Arwen’s devotion and why Aragorn is torn my his emotions towards her.
Well, I read the books, once, about twenty years ago, so I pretty much don’t remember a lot of the story in detail I really enjoyed this movie, although not as much as the first. My guess is that this story is less adaptable in the sense that it is really these separate stories that do not converge within the scope of the movie/book, the pacing and tone seems to suffer from this. I also think that Jackson is a little too heavy handed with a lot of the scenes, overly dramatic, overly sweeping. It seems like too often he is hammering home the epic scope of this story, allowing the characters to speechify too much etc. I realize this is the way the book is, but I believe a lot of what works in the book simply fails on the big screen.
But when the movie was working it was fabulous. The seige at Helm’s Gate was stunning, but the best storyline was really Frodo’s. I think it is simply more compelling, Frodo’s task in the movie is far more imporatant. Aragon and those guys can protect Rohan and Helm’s Gate all they like, but if Frodo deosn’t get the ring to Mordor what difference does it make? And Frodo and Samwise’s struggles seem to be greater tests of character.
First, the movie has got to end with the sailing from the Grey Havens.
Now that that’s settled… …
Agreed that the indispensable elements are Eowyn & Witch King, Gandalf & Witch King, Charge of the Rohirrim, Aragorn in the Nick of Time.
The Watchers – the sentient statue things – are something I want to see.
The battle at Morannon is so darn cool…because I love The Mouth of Sauron. The fact that he’d forgotten his real name…wow. And they’ve cast the role of MoS, so it’s probably In.
One other thing: I was pleasantly surprised by the Ents. Yes, they weren’t quite how I pictured them, and there weren’t any ent draughts, and they beefed up Merry & Pippins role in motivating the ent army. But it all worked.
I was happy to see orcs & Uruk-hai get actual dialog, and not just grunts and howls. But I was not happy that they changed the reason of the conflict between the orcs & uruks–from where to take the hostages, to whether or not to eat the hostages.
Hello Again meant to see it together last night, but by the time I went to get tickets for her show, it was sold out. So we (Kyla and I and some other friends) saw a movie that started 20 minutes after hers did.
I confess to being one of those total morons who hadn’t watched all of the first movie before seeing this one. Worse yet, we even OWN THE FIRST ONE. Didn’t matter, the movie still totally hung together and I loved it. I really enjoyed all the panoramic shots and the battle scenes.
I must buy the DVD if for no other reason than to see how Legolas got onto that horse in an early scene. The audience in my theatre CHEERED.
No one has mentioned yet the wonderful little part where you see the Ents bracing for the water deluge…and one of the ones on fire wades in and plunges his burning “head” into the water. Lots of giggles in the theatre because it was funny, and also a relief because I felt so bad (being a nature-lover) when I’d seen it on fire before.
I may be one of the few who actually enjoyed the Arwen/Elrond/Aragorn interlude. Arwen’s a moral dilemma for Aragorn, and I for one am glad they did something with that. I think it’s the best way to keep the Aragorn/Eowyn thing from getting trite.
The Galadriel monologue in the middle of the film was kinda weird, though. Maybe it’s there because Galadriel introduces the trilogy, and she will end the trilogy… so she appears at the half-way point? I don’t know.
It’s really pretty good that Jackson got almost all the way to the end of his second film before an (almost) undebatable blunder appeared - Faramir’s change (really a completely different character) is no improvement over the book. I agree that he would lack credibility in Osgiliath even to somebody who had never read the book. So far, there’s been nobody to give us a redeeming impression of Gondor - Boromir and Faramir both seem to be rotten parts cut out of Numenor. I’m hoping to see some depth added to Faramir in the extended DVD; without a little more light I’m afraid he’s just mean and inexplicable.
On the whole, TTT is so different from FOTR that I don’t think any comparison of the two makes sense. They both accomplish what they set out to do, brilliantly I think, and both are essentially true to the emotional impact of the book (with the exception of Faramir), if not always the substance.
Cranky: thanks for reminding about Legolas getting on the horse. Wonderful “elves are different from you and me” shot. And the ent with his “hair on fire”…good one.
Engywook: I think the only reason Galadriel is in this movie, is to explain (without ever saying so) how Haldir’s archers got to Helm’s Deep.
Speaking of Faramir and blunders…when Faramir & his merry men are reading the map—how could they possibly know that Saruman was attacking Helm’s Deep at that moment?