The United States Declares Economic War on Canada

Politics & Elections
261

I’m in a fairly unique position right now- I’m a US citizen, living in Canada. My wife works for the Oilers, and I’m here on her work permit. I’m currently working for a company back in the US. To make things even more complicated, we own some mineral rights in Texas that we occasionally get money from. All of our family and most of our friends are in the US.

I’d be terrified of this whole situation, but I have zero idea how it’s actually going to affect us. Moving back to the US seems like the best idea, but honestly, things aren’t looking great there, either. And moving sucks in the best of times- and this certainly isn’t that.

So far, everyone here is still friendly towards us. I’m honestly not sure how long that’s going to last, though- Trump is burning through every bit of Canada’s good will towards the US.

262

I was wondering about this type of situation. The Canadian company I retired from had a fairly integrated international workforce, a significant portion of which are in and from the US, with a number of Americans working in the Canadian offices.

At some point I could see that becoming awkward and uncomfortable at best, but I would like to think that we (Canadians) could see past the Trumpian political BS and continue relating reasonably. However, ass-holes are everywhere so who knows.

When I was in the navy we had our share of exchange officers from different countries, including the US. That will be interesting as well.

In my experience working and socializing with American military officers, if I had to characterize them (as if they are all the same) I would say that the main selection criterion (beyond professional competence) is that they are people I would love to have living next door, and having a BBQ and a beer with. And now Trump-the-Ignorant is going to potentially fuck this up for no good reason beyond his own ego and the ignorance and stupidity of his voters.

So let’s say that this gets resolved within a year - what then, what next? Do we ever trust the US again (until a generation or two has passed), regardless of how much we actually liked half the population?

I’m not the biggest patriot on the planet, or even in my own country but, FFS, I like Canada and I recognize that we are very fortunate. We, the west, also have a pretty good thing going. And now, one ass-hole is going to go around stabbing different friends and partners in the back.

263

That’s what I was doing; blaming the morons for representing us all.

264

I am ashamed at the way my country is treating Canada today, but even more disappointed at how little concern there seems to be on both sides of the 49th parallel for Mexico which is being served the same shit sandwich heaped upon other indignities that Canadians have been immune to.

265

I’ve started a similar thread about Mexico, but I don’t have much personal knowledge about the Mexican situation so hope other Dopers will contribute to it.

I saw one news item that PM Trudeau and President Sheinbaum are in talks but there hasn’t been a lot in the news.

Mexico seems to be planning a more nuanced approach than Canada.

266

After reading the following blurb I found in a news story, I am unclear about something:

Canadian Tobi Lutke, who co-founded Shopify, said the tariffs were going to be “devastating to so many people’s lives and small businesses”. On X, he wrote: “Canada thrives when it works with America together. Win by helping America win. Trump believes that Canada has not held its side of the bargain. These are things that every Canadian wants its government to do too. These are not crazy demands, even if they came from an unpopular source."

What demands, exactly, has Trump made on Canada?

267

I her people say it’s somehow our fault and yet no one can clearly articulate what we did.

Does Canada hold up to its NATO obligations? No, to be honest, but how does this connect to that?

268

It’s not entirely clear, because it’s not entirely clear what he’s upset about.

He has said that Canada needs to step up border security, because of the hordes of illegal immigrants with backpacks full of fentanyl. (Okay, he hasn’t said quite that way.)

However, as PM Trudeau said on Saturday night, less than 1% of illegal immigrants and less than 1% of fentanyl coming into the US come across the northern border.

Trudeau stated that both of these are issues that Canada wants to address, by working collaboratively with the US.

Trump’s also upset that Canada doesn’t spend as much on our military as the NATO guideline (currently 2.5% GDP, i think?). Many Canadians agree that we should spend more on defence in an increasingly unstable world. (Trump’s actions have likely increased that willingness, but not in the way he intended. Until Saturday night, we thought we had a reliable ally down south. Now we have a hostile nation on our southern border.)

But he also talks about how the US is “subsidizing” Canada, tossing out numbers like $200 B a year. That seems to be the trade deficit: we sell more stuff to the US than we buy. But, that’s not a subsidy in any sense: US manufacturers buy our natural resources, primarily oil, at a good market price. If you subtract the oil from the total amount, we buy more from the US. That’s the market working.

The reason US industries buy so much of our oil has something to do with the US refineries: for some purposes Alberta heavy crude is cheaper and better for certain end-products than Light Texas crude. Plus location. (Apologies if this isn’t technically accurate; it’s the best I can do from the media reports.)

But in Trump’s mind (using the term loosely), that is a subsidy that has to end. He appears to be an 18th century mercantilist.

I also saw speculation in a couple of news articles that this is Trump’s idea of softening us up for a review of the CUSM free trade agréement in a year or two, because the deal is so unfair to the US. (What numbskull negotiated that deal, anyway? :flushed: )

Or does he really want to take us over? He’s said he would, using economic force to annex us. He said that at the same time he started talking about 25% tariffs, which he’s now done.

We Canadians cannot just dismiss that as “blather”, as some Dopers have patronizingly suggested. We have to take the US as a serious threat to our existence as an independent country.

So, yes, there are some things we could do, in a collaborative fashion with the US: border security and military spending.

On trade, it’s not clear what he wants, other than typical Trump whinging that Canada is “unfair”.

And annexation is right out.

269

I was of that view when he first started this nonsense. Now I’m thinking the same as you.

270

He’s also said the EU is “Very unfair.”

All of this is bluster; it means nothing. No one fully knows what he’s doing, if this is really his idea, or what the intention is.

It could be anything from “renegotiate the free trade deal” to “begin the process of convincing Americans to invade.”

The two sides spoke this morning and apparently will speak more today. Of course, Trump “spoke” to Denmark too and threatened to invade, so who knows what “Speaking” means.

I think everyone can agree the Americans aren’t really serious, in any institutional way, in thinking the free trade deal is unfair, because of course it isn’t, and Trump is NOT doing this alone; even if he’s stupid enough to really think this, which he is, if it was just his thing then those around him would find a way to placate him. Business leaders who aren’t tech oligarchs really, really don’t want this.

So we must conclude there’s something sinister happening. Project 2025 and tech oligarchs are behind it. Best case scenario is this is their plan to move the tax burden from billionaires to the working class (which is what tariffs do.) Worst case is they are planning to invade Canada, murder a lot of Canadians, and take over. And no, we won’t be made a state. That would be bad for Republicans. We’ll be a “territory,” effectively a slave state.

271

A post was merged into an existing topic: Mexico responds to US declaration of economic war

272

This belongs in the other thread. I’ll move it for you.

275

Heavy crude is worse in almost every possible way relative to light crude. However, refineries that are configured to process heavy crude cannot be easily reconfigured to process light crude, and vice versa. Refineries represent enormous investments in infrastructure, and swapping one back and forth between heavy and light crude costs billions and billions of dollars, so will only be done as a last resort.

There was a time not long past, prior to the frakking boom, when it was expected that North American-produced oil would be predominantly heavy crude from the Alberta oilsands. At that time, a bunch of US refinery capacity was set up for heavy crude, and so now they are stuck buying heavy crude (which costs less than light crude anyways, because it’s harder to refine) unless they want to take a refinery offline for a couple years and spend a few billion converting it to light crude.

276

And he did it the only way he knows how, by giving them a common enemy. :wink:

277

I know Canadians who are hitting back – by only buying Canadian.

278

If we really want to piss Trump off, instead of booing we should take a knee instead.

279

To the Americans saying “don’t blame us”—sorry, but this is our fault and our responsibility. People abroad know that there are tens of millions who voted for Harris, and who do not like what is going on. Still, it’s our country and it’s happening on our watch, and even if we specifically are not the bad actors, we clearly need to have done more than we did up to this point. I don’t think it means that people abroad think that any given American is a bad person, but that the nation collectively is an unreliable ally and a bad friend. And we are, no matter how nice we are as individuals and no matter what is in our individual heads and hearts.

As an American, I’m really sorry, and upset, and trying to do what I can. As a Canadian, I’m furious, boycotting American products, and grimly steeling myself for some hard times. Even if this tariff issue disappears in a couple of weeks, it’s going to be a roller coaster for the next four years.

280

Too true. We’re like the parents of a school shooter. Sure we didn’t physically pull any trigger, but we raised him and gave him access to the guns.