No sotto voce. The quiet part has been out loud for a long time now.
The NYT quotes Pam Bondi’ social media posts (it is in the live updated breaking news, makes no sense to link because it changes constantly):
It appears, based on Attorney General Pam Bondi’s social media post that Nicolás Maduro has been charged in a new indictment. The existing charges filed in March 2020 do not include his wife, Cilia Flores. The earlier indictment, filed under seal, contained four counts, charging Maduro and five others with narco-terrorism, conspiracy to import cocaine, possession of machine guns and conspiracy to possess machine guns.
Can somebody explain the last two indictment points to me? Does a government leader, the president of a sovereign country, not have the right to posses machine guns? Why would it be a conspiracy if he did?
And what about the second amendment? I know it does not apply in Venezuela, they have their own laws, but still. Is this the legal equivalent of blowing a raspberry?
“The strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must”
–The Melian Dialogue by Thucydides
Also, won’t it be awkward when – based on recent precedent – Trump realizes that he simply must grant Maduro a Pardon?
He wouldn’t want to be viewed as logically inconsistent (or insane), right? Right??
I’m not sure it matters, but it appears this move is supported by the Venezuelan people. Is there anyone from Venezuela on here would would comment and confirm or deny the population’s general feeling about this?
I’ve seen far too many reporters use unprecedented. So on January 3, 1990 the US captured Manuel Noriega. Not likely a coincidence this occurred on the same date.
Weird that one despot did this to another.
Someone mentioned US being throw out of the UN. Can’t happen, won’t happen. Nations have done worse without being thrown out. Please see Russia currently.
Does this in any way help María Corina Machado or her party take control from the current ruling party: United Socialist Party of Venezuela?
If this is about oil why do it now with oil prices so low? Seems odd.
Is Columbia going to make a move? It seems unlikely, but I’ve seen a few comments like that.
Just to add …
Whenever people would assume that invading Iraq was about cheap oil, I’d remind them that consolidating supply or control of a commodity seldom (never?) results in lower prices for the consumer.
Whether or not one believes that this is unambiguously “about oil,” it would be silly to assume that we’re not after it, regardless, and their stores are said to be vast.
Trump solicited a billion in campaign fund$ from the Big Oil Execs; allegedly, he got about half that – no petty cash haul.
Also, like the recent German bank caper, once you’re juxtaposed to your resource-wealthy neighbor, it becomes a simple matter of “Kill, Baby, Kill!” followed by “Drill, Baby, Drill!”
ETA: @What_Exit I hadn’t read your post while I was typing mine, so … my comments weren’t in any way addressed to you.
This is a dangerous slippery slope here: of course some people in Venezuela would like to get rid of Maduro and his regime, and the last elections were rigged. Here is an article quoting the vice-president of the Canary Island - Venezuela Union (in Spanish):
There is a mixture of concern that this could get out of hand, but also a sense of freedom.
But claiming that you are liberating an oppressed population was the justification used by Hitler in the Sudeten, by Putin in Ukraine, by Mussolini in Libya, by Putin again in Georgia, by Nixon in Chile, once again by Putin in Chechnia…
The other charges appear to assert that Maduro was engaged in drug smuggling into the US.
If the conspiracy to possess machine guns was related to criminal actions in the United States, the argument would be that his status as head of state does not allow him to commit criminal acts in the US.
I think it would be akin to falling apart because somebody has taken your daughter’s fourth-grade class hostage, and then hearing that there’s a rescue afoot – only to find out that the rescue effort is being led by Jeffrey Epstein.
It is not whether it is up to him to hold elections or not, it is whether anyone will physically stop him.
For the last damn time: Laws and regulations do NOT enforce themselves.
It’s about oil in the sense that recently, 90% of Venezuela’s oil exports had been to China.
Moderating:
This is really off topic. Let’s talk about the military action here. If you want to talk about broad political connections in the US, i suggest a new thread, possibly in P&E or the Pit.
Argentina president Javier Milei celebrated the capture of Maduro and his wife on social media, posting on X, “liberty advances, ¡Viva la libertad, carajo!”
POTUS was just on Fox & Friends over the phone. Did not make it any clearer, kept digressing then when they’d try to refocus would come back to reaffirming the statement already issued just in more words.
Did say Maduro was flown to the USS Iwo Jima and “will be headed for New York where they’re indicted.”
SJU airport reports suspension of US commercial flights for 24 hrs. My suspicion is that is where he’ll be (or already was) relayed to be put on a flight to CONUS.
Does it need to be about low oil prices or just having the oil? Trump made “agreements” with Intel, US Steel and Nvidia with US joint ownership or kickbacks from their sales. Why not seize massive oil fields and allow companies to exploit them so long as 10% goes to the Trump Government Slush Fund?
“We have bravely reclaimed the oil fields the Venezuelan government stole from you! All that’s left now is for you to sign this agreement…”
What’s odd to me is how seemingly easy it was to snatch the Maduros. Could it have been a negotiated surrender?
I can’t imagine Maduros agreed to it. But his rule is not without internal controversy in Venezuela. I could believe there were people in the Venezuela government, military, even among the equivalent of the secret service, who were recruited to help.
The only political norm left is presidents waiting until Friday night to do something that won’t be popular with the American people. I hope we all still remember how appauling this is on Monday.
I think there’s a decent chance other people close to power offered him up if that’s what you mean.
Well, then they better hop on a plane out of the country quick. This isn’t an occupation. If there were such obvious betrayals then it would be sniffed out by the Venezuelans in the next few days.