The US oversteps its bounds, or: The Poor Man!

The BBQ Pit
21

Oooh, the INS had good and sufficient reason for a completely illegal action! I’m not going to the States - the INS might decide it had good and sufficient reason to beat the shit out of me or send me to sleep with the fishes or something.

Is this guy even still a Syrian citizen? I doubt it, considering the risks he would have faced. I guess this means the States can deport anyone anywhere, can’t it. They could send me to Azerbaijan if they wanted to. (although… “Yes, Officer, I’m of Bahamanian descent…”).

Yeesh. Colour me frightened. This calls for a protest to the UN Human Rights Commission, at least.

22

Well. It says he was a Syrian citizen as well as a Canadian one, but he was traveling with a Canadian passport and he had been a citizen since the 80s.

Furthermore:

link

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. :rolleyes: I’m sure she left Iran 23 years ago exactly because she was a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer. (This is what we call very deep cover.)

There’s your bastion of freedom and light to the nations for you. God, there’s nothing left to satirize.

23

HAH! You frozen hippies don’t have the guts to use depleted uranium shells.

[mocking tone]Oooooo…it causes cancer…ooooooo[/mocking tone]

24

You know, I’ve checked that list over and over and I still can’t see the name “Saudi Arabia” anywhere on it.

So, um, yeah that would have done a lot of good last September.

(not that any of those guys were Canadians. But you know what I mean…)

25

Not being from any of the relevant countries, perhaps it is not my business to comment. Then again, perhaps it is: this sort of cruel bureuacratic arrogance mixed with delusions of competence is horrific. I’d have (innocently) thought that the U.S.A. would manage to be a bit nice and sensible about not stomping all over Canadian citizens at least. :frowning:

Well, how lucky I cannot afford a trip the the States - I wonder where they’d deport me to. Of course, it might be to somewhere warmer than Scotland.

Hmmm…

I hope there is the mother of all investigations into this

26

Unfortunately, this does not suprise me one bit.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Mix absolute power, prejudice and fear in the same person… :eek:

27

If this guy still is a Syrian citizen, and Syrian law requires compulsory military duty, does this guy have to follow Syrian law or not?

28

The actions were inexcusable, but there is more information that has gone unstated that helps explain it a bit further. The Canadians, as is their right if they so choose, allow dual citizenship. The US, at least officially, does not. If the original passport and citizenship have not been surrendered, the US considers them to be valid. The possession of a second, newer, Canadian passport does not relieve the situation. Quite the contrary, it sends up red flags of suspicion. Although it isn’t officially stated, I believe the US does not think the Canadians have done enough to protect their expansive, mutual border. Syria, incidentally, resides on a short list of countries whose citizens are currently refused admission to the US.

The possibility of using a Canadian passport (and the associated lenient entry protocols) to travel freely and without restriction in the US was a loophole that ISN has attempted to close only recently.

Again, I’m not stating this guy was treated fairly, just that there was some method to the madness of the INS actions. In their minds, he is Syrian not Canadian, and therefore should never have been in the US and must be up to no-good if he is.

29

Well, Waverly, they’re wrong. He has a Canadian passport and has been living, working and going to school here since he’s been 17.

And I get the impression that, if he left Syria wihtough ding all his military service, he hasn’t been back and wasn’t planning on going for a while.

I mean, geez, they couldn’t have just deported him to the closer one?

30

Somebody in the Administration is in a blind panic. Ghod help us.

31

Except, Waverly, he wasn’t trying to travel in the US. He wasn’t interested in entering the US. He was changing planes at the airport. If there had been a direct flight from Tunisia to Montreal the INS would never have laid eyes on him.

And if they were that concerned about the possibility of him trying to enter the US, why the hell didn’t they just send him back to Tunisia, instead of putting him into a situation where none of his loved ones have heard from him for three weeks???

I don’t care if there’s a method to their madness, they’re still morons. If any of the immigration officials at JFK had used the slightest bit of common fucking sense, then Maher Arar would be with in contact with his family right now and the US border would still be just as secure.

32

This horrible case is a good argument for making it easier to fire incompetent employees of the INS, which would be a part of the Homeland Security Department.

33

Math Geek, Laur,
I wasn’t making excuses, just telling you what the thought process was that resulted in such an unfair (and at first pass, incomprehensible) decision. I’ve been in JFK. In fact, I nearly live there. They are not going to use common sense in our lifetimes. In the eyes of US immigration, there is no such thing as passing through or just changing planes. Upon entering the US, even when making your way to a connecting flight, one must claim their bags and report to immigration prior to being allowed into the airport proper. It’s considered an entry even though you have no intention of staying. I’m sure the intent is to discourage people from taking the opportunity to abandon their connecting flight and remain in the US illegally; while immigration may have no knowledge they were ever there.

Still, caring sympathetic people could have held the man while simultaneously getting to the bottom of his story. I’m not sure affording a person of Syrian origin a lesser level of consideration then a natural born Canadian is what the US is supposed to be all about.

34

For the record, Waverly, I realize you weren’t making excuses. And I’m more than aware that the INS have never exercised common sense. But their usual cluelessness doesn’t normally cause Canadian citizens to vanish from the face of the earth. This whole incident just pushes my frustration level with the INS from “those bureaucratic nitwits” (the baseline level) to “those malicious thugs”.

35

[small, but relevant hijack]

The U.S. does not prohibit dual citizenship; it just cautions that having dual citizenship can make a person’s life considerably more complicated, as if one is in the country of one’s other nationality, there is a limited amount of help the U.S. can provide dual citizens if they are detained for any reason. You can find more details on the State Dept’s Web site at http://www.travel.state.gov. A Canadian passport held by someone who was born in another country doesn’t send up red flags AFAIK; there are hundreds of thousands of Canadians who weren’t born Canadians.

Also, Syrians are not currently under blanket refusal of admission to the U.S.; at the discretion of the consular officer adjudicating their visa applications, they are subject to addiitonal levels of security clearances, depending on age, gender, purpose of visit, type of visa applied for, and the results of any preliminary clearances. And normally, if one is travelling on a Canadian passport, one is treated as any other Canadian.

So far, Canadian citizens are generally exempt from the requirement to apply for a visa in order to enter the U.S., whether or not they hold any other citizenship in addition to Canadian. (And it’s by bilateral treaty and quite intentional, and therefore NOT a loophole.) I can certainly foresee INS trying to find ways to close that gap, as it’s rather a large one. But in the meantime, I will echo everyone else in stating that the guy who sent him back to the land of his birth was not only a moron, but possibly in violation of multiple international treaties to whcih the U.S. is signatory. (Does anyone know how he immigrated to Canada, e.g. was he a refugee?)

And oh, IANAL, but I work for an immigration law firm and used to work for Immigration COurt (in the U.S.)

36

Eva,
Is the following quote inaccurate, or is there simply more to it than the statement represents? It seemed plausible, but perhaps the author is in error.

“Although Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Libya, and now Syria are on the INS do-not-admit list, visitors from those terrorist countries continue to be admitted.” – from http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28312
Just to clarify, having a Canadian passport and being of another country of origin is not what sends up flags, it is having valid citizenship in a country from the above list plus a Canadian passport that sends up flags. This is problem is magnified when the 2nd passport is Canadian, due to the privileged access Canadians are granted to the US. I called taking undue advantage of this policy a ‘loophole’, but if you are more comfortable with your term ‘gap’, I can live with that too.

The Canadians do not openly endorse dual citizenship either, warning:
“Dual citizenship may carry with it certain benefits, but it may bring unexpected difficulties – legal proceedings, taxation and financial responsibilities, military service, denial of emigration, even imprisonment for failure to comply with obligations in one of your countries of citizenship.” – CIC

He was likely below the radar, but it seems even prior to being detained in NY, he was in danger of being found in violation of avoiding military service.

37

Waverly and Eva Luna, the INS should have contacted the Canadian Embassy, if I am not wrong according, at least, with the convention of viena on diplomatic relationships.
But of course it’s just an international “law” surely implemented by those arabs who are trying to kill all jewish and americans*

*Copyright December 2002

38

Waverly– here’s a helpful formula which will aid you in determining the reliability of some internet content:

[ul]IF domain_name$=“worldnetdaily.com” THEN statement$=“false”[/ul]

wnd.com – because responsible journalism doesn’t consistently support our right wing, fundamentalist christian, xenophobic agenda.

39

By way of clarification, here is a blurb from the State Department’s Web site at http://www.travel.state.gov/section306.html:

"Notice: Special visa processing procedures pursuant to Section 306 of the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Reform Act of 2002

Section 306 of the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Reform Act of 2002 (EBSVRA) pertains to the issuance of visas to aliens from state sponsors of terrorism.

Seven countries are now designated as state sponsors of terrorism. They are North Korea, Cuba, Syria, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, and Libya.

Special Visa Processing Procedures:

All applicants from state sponsors of terrorism age 16 and over, irrespective of gender, must without exception complete form DS-157, in addition to form DS-156, and must appear for an interview with a consular officer.

An exception to the requirement for an interview may be made at the discretion of the consular officer in cases of A and G visa applicants (except for A-3 and G-5 applicants, who must be interviewed).

The language for Section 306 of the EBSVRA in pertinent part follows:

No nonimmigrant visa under Section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)) shall be issued to any alien from a country that is a state sponsor of international terrorism unless the Secretary of State determines, in consultation with the Attorney General and the heads of other appropriate United States agencies, that such alien does not pose a threat to the safety or national security of the United States. In making a determination under this sub-section, the Secretary of State shall apply standards developed by the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Attorney General and the heads of other appropriate United States agencies, that are applicable to the nationals of such states."

(Note: A and G visas are for diplomats and employees of international organizations, respectively.)

What this means in practice is that it is possible for nationals of these countries to get U.S. visas; they just have to pass security checks first, as I stated above, based on their age, gender, stated purpose of visit, and anything else the consular officer deems relevant. The DS-156 is the visa application which all visa applicants fill out; the DS-157 is a more detailed form requesting a bunch of biographic information (past employers, past citizenship held, special military training, etc.) If you’re curious, both forms are also on the State Dept. Web site.

So **Waverly, ** the newspaper provided asvast oversimplification, which newspapers tend to do.

AS for your question about having 2 valid citizenships: this happens more frequently than most people think. Some countries (I don’t know whether Syria is one) don’t allow their nationals to renounce citizenship, or impose all kinds of crazy conditions; you can’t just walk into your consulate and say you don’t want to be a X-ian anymore. One of my co-workers is Russian, and the Russian government’s current position is that they’re happy to let you renounce Russian citizenship IF you pay them a $1,000 fee and comply with a whole host of other conditions.

As for the U.S.’ position toward exempting Canadian nationals from the visa application process, even if they also hold another citizenship: I’m sure that was intentional and is reciprocal. IMHO it’s not a loophole if it was purposely made part of the treaty language with both parties’ kowledge and consent.

And ** Estilicon, ** yep, I’m sure the poor guy should have been allowed to contact the Canadian Embassy; there’s more info on that subject on the State Dept. Web site, too. That was a royal INS screwup, and I hope someone will pay for it in a big way. What would the harm have been in holding the guy in detentiona little longer to straighten the situation out rather than shipping him back to a country where he will likely be persecuted?

I’m no international law expert, but I’d bet we’ve violated not only the Vienna, but at least one Geneva Convention by deporting someone back to a country where he will quite probably face persecution, if not death, without any sort of prior adjudication.
And because of the dual nationality issue, I don’t know how much the Canadian government will be able to do to help the poor sap.

Personally, as an American and as a Jew, I not only have no problem with invoking legal protections to protect an Arab, I’m mortally embarrassed and offended that INS has apparently used someone’s ethnicity/national origin to take adverse and extralegal actions against him which may result in harm or even death to him. If we judge people by their race or religion, and harm comes to them as a result of our actions or inaction, we’re no better than terrorists.

40

Small update:

It has been confirmed as much as it can be that he has indeed been deported to Syria. The last article I read said that he had to have been either conscripted or put in jail.

If he had been conscripted, he would have had the freedom to contact his family. Therefore, they’re assuming he’s in jail.

The article ended nicely by saying that Amnesty International has condemned Syrian jails as being inhumane places where torture occurs often.