The Walking Dead; 2.11 "Judge, Jury, Executioner" (open spoilers)

Cafe Society
41

I fully admit that I am an uncritical lover of all things zombie, so I can always fanwank why they act the way they act. For me, once I’ve accepted the existence of zombies, I can make anything make sense.

Rick, to me, comes out the same way he’s been - tortured, caught between what he wants the world to be and what it is, not knowing whether to be the law enforcement officer or the sociopathic survivalist.

Carl shouldn’t, but he will. That will be an interesting character arc, I think. I wonder if he’ll continue to be the living embodiment of Rick’s inner struggle - he’s young enough to remember what the world once was, and young enough to start to experience the world as it is, and watching those two influences fight in him will be fun.

That was creepy - Carl looked not right in that scene.

I don’t think the cow was a zombie, but was just disemboweled and being a cow about it.

Ammunition, maybe? That didn’t make sense to me, either.

42

I wanted to give this line the recognition it deserved. :slight_smile:

43

They could but I think they were trying to decide what was most humane, maybe a snapshot of the civilization vs civilized argument.

44

Well, thanks! But really, I couldn’t figure out a different way to express it. “Hello, I’m a cow, let me eat grass OH FUCK SOMETHING JUST RIPPED MY GUTS OUT so I shall lay here on the grass and moan.”

At the very first, I thought the cow’s moans were indications of zombie turning, but I remembered that I would have heard about that from my friend who’ve read the graphic novels. We often have discussions of whether or not animals can zombify. There’s only one example we can remember, in a book called Feed, which I encourage everybody to go and buy and read right fucking now.

45

Agreed about Carl in that scene. Looked like Damien (The Omen).

And didn’t Andrea make some comment about “this is all the ammunition we have?” while searching through the gun bag?

46

In which case they could do a firing squad, with blanks in all the guns but one.

Because it didn’t look like Rick knew how to fashion a proper noose. I think it was demonstrated in an episode of Deadwood, how the knot has to be positioned just right (behind the ear?) so that you get a broken neck and not a slow strangulation.

47

Re: the cow. On my TV I couldn’t see that it was disemboweled. I couldn’t even really make out that it was a cow since the scene was so dark (and/or I wasn’t paying close enough attention). I just thought it was an animal making a zombie like noise. In fact, once the zombie showed up, I assumed that’s where the noise was coming from and the animal was a regular dead animal.

48

[QUOTE=Kolga]
And if it happens in the graphic novels, I would appreciate nobody spoiling it, because I still haven’t read them.
[/QUOTE]

Roger Wilco, but at this point it’s almost immaterial as the novels and the series have so many irreconcilable differences that it’s like they exist in two different parallel universes. (I prefer the series.)

They need to get more info from Randall before they do anything to him because there’s a lot that doesn’t make sense. If Randall is from that area of Georgia and has been with the group for a while then either they’ve got a base in the area or they’re moving in circles one or the other, so are they nomadic or do they have a base? Do the have a leader and if so is it a ‘first among equals’ thing like Rick or like a warlord, and what does he look like? Are their kids in the group? Why did they take Randall in instead of killing him? There’s lots of useful info to be had if they’re going to go to war, and Randall would probably barter info for his life.

I’m really hoping Merle’s not a member of the group, but won’t be surprised if he is.

49

All of this, I agree with, in spades. They need to question him. But…how can you trust him? How do we even know that what he told Daryl is true? I can’t imagine that there’s any way his information is verifiable without someone(s) going out to scout and verify, which places that group and the rest of them in danger.

Randall is an unpredictable variable in their survival plan, and as such is dangerous. The question is, do they remain in our “modern” civilized mindset, or transition to the “strangers get killed” mindset of the frontier?

50

And where would they find these blanks?

51

I highly doubt any of them know how to use the long drop method, or have any way of researching it so instead of quickly breaking Randall’s neck they would’ve slowly strangled him.

52

Well, know what knows what the scientist dude whispered to Rick in season 1 yet.

53

That was one of my big problems with the ‘hanging as an option’. B/c I’m weird and I read all sorts of things I knew about the hanging equation. I was thinking, “Jeebus, we are going to watch these characters watch someone strangle to death slowly.”

And I bawled my head off about Dale.

There, I’m a big old baby.

54

I have no idea, but if they’re going to keep putting people on trial for their lives, they need to find some.

55

How much does anybody want to bet that next week when Randall escapes he find the gun that Carl dropped?

56

I was surprised to find it was a dead cow making that noise, and not a dead horse. I skipped through this episode more than any of the others. I was with a couple Dale conversations, then there were more and more and then everybody had to get to get together and talk about it again.

It seems like the writers really want to explore every nuance of a dilemma in depth, when there is a limited amount of time to work with given the short seasons. There are a lot more interesting situations and questions and character problems that can be explored, but it is hard to get to them when you spend an entire episode on the rule of law after the collapse of institutions.

How about encountering the other gang, and finding Merle there and the problem of two brothers on opposite sides. Maybe there are good people in the gang, similar to the farm folks, but they have to toss their lot in with scum to survive? How about a giant zombie swarm passes through just a shootout begins and they have to figure out whether to fight zombies or each other?

Before we can get to any of that, we will need to spend at least 2-3 acts on Carl’s guilt and self blame for Dale’s death and a 5 minute monologue from Rick about how worried he is that Carl will turn into an amoral monster.

57

Noose - they’re trying (even Shane) to keep some semblance of humanity/old rules. I’m glad they didn’t go that way; apparently they figured out that it isn’t as easy as it appears in the movies.

Firing squad - no. They have limited ammunition for one thing. Any use of guns needs to be ‘one shot, one kill’ as much as possible. Andrea this week and Rick last week both commented on the need to preserve ammunition.

Daryl’s gun - he’s going to be pissed when he discovers it missing, and it’ll be another fracture in his connection to the group.

Dale’s mercy killing - Just like with Sofia, it was going to fall to Rick to do it, and I think he would have. Another example of Daryl being possibly the most stand up guy in the group; he took the load off of Rick’s shoulders. He’s not willing to lead (and probably knows he’d suck at it) - but he is willing to do what needs to be done.

58

Agreed - I think Daryl is the stand-up guy of the group, it helps that he doesn’t have to worry about family considerations when he makes decisions.

I keep waiting for them to address practical issues such as food and fuel - wouldn’t you have a few of the folks out scavenging through homes, stockpiling needed supplies? Those chickens and cows aren’t going to last forever, especially if zombies get to gnawing on a few of them. I’m hoping that’s what T-Dog is doing each episode since Lord knows we don’t see him doing anything else.

I was getting irate with Carl’s actions until I remembered when I was 12 and I would have been doing most of the same stupid shit. Give that kid a DS and some Playboys and he’ll stay out of trouble.

59

Another really good episode. Some of my thoughts:

1.) They set-up very quickly that Shane has not really had a significant change of heart from last week and even shifted into planning mode of how to remove Rick from the leadership of the group. The fight last week was very much a passionate argument that escalated. He is now playing a more subtle game, feeling out Andrea to see if she is an ally, and thinking through how to make it happen.

2.) Carl’s scenes in the barn and in the woods with the zombie were fairly tense. A part of me keeps trying to put myself in his shoes - he is only 12 so he will make dumb decisions but more importantly, at 12 he is still very much in that stage where his character/integrity and values are being shaped by those around him. He has two very strong and diverging “father figures” influencing him and it will be interesting to see who he becomes.

3.) I thought the actor who plays Dale did a great job even though I mostly disagreed with the character’s point of view. I’m glad that Dale has been there as the voice of civilized society and holding onto our humanity. Again, I don’t necessarily agree with him in this specific instance as it relates to Randal but I do agree with the larger sentiment - be afraid of losing your humanity!

4.) I thought of Merle over the last few episodes as well and the possibility he is with the other group. I don’t think they’re going there but I find the pulling away of Darryl to be interesting taken in the context of a future encounter with that group and possibly Merle. Considering how Darryl feels right now, would he go over to be with his brother or stay with his group?

5.) I was glad to see a good ole’ fashioned stomach ripping. I think in every zombie movie, there is always the one dude/dudette who gets disemboweled by zombies. So to me, what happened to Dale was not far-fetched - it is pretty standard in zombie flicks and I was glad to see it again (though not specifically applied to Dale, the poor guy!)

60

The more I think about this episode, and the whole “should we kill the kid?” scenario, the more I get pissed off about how contrived it all is. I found Dale a little irritating as a character and his speech defending Randall was badly written, but I think he was totally in the right about the issue, and it was stupid that there was not more of a debate on what to do.

Randall is a kid! And for all the group knows, he has done nothing to deserve being executed. The two guys back at the bar? Yeah, they were obvious psychos and bad news. But Randall is just one more person trying to survive in a zombie-filled wilderness. Sure he’s going to hook up with a crew he knows are bad dudes rather than go it alone. So would I.

Lori’s comment “I wouldn’t feel safe having him at the farm if he weren’t tied up.” WTF? Shane tried to RAPE HER, has been acting psycho-stalker-ish around her all season long, went completely ape-shit at the barn - so why does she not insist on having him tied up?

Darryl - every episode he was in last season, he had to be restrained at the last moment from hauling off and belting someone. Why haven’t they killed him yet?

Darryl’s skin-head brother - Merle? First scene we see him in, he’s assaulting members of the group, ready to off T-Dog just for being black and trying to take control of the group. They actually WENT BACK INTO ZOMBIE FILLED TERRITORY TO TRY AND RESCUE THAT PSYCHO!!!

Shane, Darryl & Merle - all have acted in aggressive, hostile, dangerous manners and yet Shane & Darryl are considered members of the group who get to vote on whether or not Randall gets to live.

Randall on the other hand is a kid with a major leg wound (he’s not hobbling away anytime soon), who was deserted by this crew that Rick’s group are so afraid of, is considered a major threat. This is not just characters acting stupid, this is an utterly contrived scenario.

Oh, and that big crew of 30 bad dudes the group are so afraid of? Here’s an idea - have you considered leaving the area yourself? I thought the whole point of staying at the farm was that it was a “safe haven.” Well, apparently it may not be. It’s not like there’s anything tying anybody down anymore. Just get in the winnebago and drive farther south, sit out the winter south of the border. I’m sure there are plenty of abandoned farmhouses with well-water between Hirsch’s farm and the Mexican border to squat on. Ones without roaming gangs of marauders hanging about.