Also, Octopus? You smarmy halfwit hypocrite, your posts have been absolutely littered with insults toward everyone who disagrees with you, calling me self-righteous and smug and anything else you can think of. You’ve not yet bothered to make a coherent argument–or if you have bothered, I weep for the state of education, that you think your arguments approach coherence. You’re a fucking moron if you think you’re in any position to whine about insults being thrown at you.
Washington’s slaves were eventually freed; he was unable to free the ones Martha had brought from her first marriage, or their descendants. Some of that bloodline were eventually inherited by Mrs Robert E Lee.
Jefferson mentioned gradual abolitionist measures but hardly “fought” for them. In his Notes on the State of Virginia he detailed the inferiority of the African race–and why any freed slaves would have to be shipped far, far away. Due to his shambolic financial situation, his slaves were auctioned off after his death, breaking up families. He did free a few favorites, The children of Sally Hemings mostly just left & were not pursued; they were white enough to pass.
Discussing the history of race & slavery fully is important but I wouldn’t dump Washington or Jefferson (with whom I have a few more bones to pick).
I’ve noticed that, in this thread and others (like the one about “microaggressions”), there are a lot of arguments/claims that basically boil down to “oh, racism isn’t really that big a problem anymore; those minorities are just being oversensitive.”
Excuse me if I look skeptically at such arguments.
Any comparison of the oppression of black people in the old South (or the old North, for that matter) to any supposed oppression of the South (and I assume you mean “Southern white people” here) by the North following the Civil War is on the verge of offensive. There is no comparison here.
As to the flag itself, in this Southern (born in Atlanta, raised in Louisiana and Arkansas, and currently residing in Virginia) veteran’s opinion, flying the Confederate flag where black people might see it is as rude, obnoxious, and un-neighborly as flying the swastika for supposed Germanic pride where Jews might see it. I’ll put aside any accusations of racism against flag wavers for now – it’s just incredibly rude, obnoxious, and un-neighborly.
But I love thinking that someone would go to the Frederick Douglas Museum, and inside it would be all about Robert E. Lee.
“What’s with all this military stuff?”
“I did not know that Douglas went to West Point.”
“Or fought in the Mexican American War!?”
“Wow -he was paler than I thought - did he ever try to pass?”
To be fair, they both had really great beards.
I have minimized nothing. I have told you and others multiple time that so stick your faux outrage up your ass, if there’s room. Am I doing pit talk right? I’m just not an arrogant twat who self righteously and hypocritically tells someone else what they mean. Strawman and liar? When one is met with insults such as you and dork have used during your diatribes you don’t deserve respect in return. Dork was the one who ruined the tone of this thread to begin with. And “tone policing”? More hypocrisy from the asshole brigade I see.
Realize this though. I’m actually sympathetic and a proponent to treating everyone as individuals. But you all attacking me for not having the orthodoxy’s proscribed amount of outrage and giving people the benefit of the doubt doesn’t gain you allies. I’m probably not the first person who has joined to participate in Great Debates and have decided it’s a self righteous Echo chamber full of those with no people skills. Honestly that’s what you people remind me of. People who can’t relate to real people. Can’t hold a job with real people probably.
Anyways enjoy your “intellectual” echo chamber and juvenile cess pool. You slimey people aren’t worth any more time in a sub forum that is incompetently moderated.
Congratulations on your flame-out. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
You really fuckin are, dude. You really fuckin are.
Sorry, I didn’t realize we were going this small…I was thinking of “towns” that are, say, 80K or bigger. And what I have observed is that, for example, the presence of the UA in Tuscaloosa and the aerospace complex in Huntsville seems to align with more education, less backwoods superstition.
If we’re talking about more rural areas, then I would say that your description could easily apply to great swaths of Alabama, as well. However, you should take that with a grain of salt, because while I have passed through many small communities in Alabama, I have lived in none.
That’s probably a good description. However, I don’t really like to talk about the “background racism” in a context like this discussion, because I don’t think there is anything uniquely southern about it–I think it’s all over, but perhaps expressed differently. To be clear, I’m talking about the kind of people who don’t use racial epithets, but when a black family moves into their neighborhood, wring their hands over property values.
I generally agree, and here is where I think education plays a role. People that never interact much with others outside of family seem more entrenched, whereas people that go to college pick up a wider worldview and even sometimes spread it.
I also think there’s a real generational effect. I feel like my parents’ generation has more deep-seeded racism, my generation has less, and my kids even less. Which is why I make comments like the only real fix for racism is to wait for a certain number of older people to die. My grandparents had their good points, and I loved them, but the fact remains that when they died, there were that many less people in the world who didn’t understand why it’s not okay to say things like “I worked like a n-r all day today.”
I think you’re making a similar distinction to the one I make when I talk about “loud” racists vs “quiet” racists.
Yeah, I think that’s a fair description of a lot of southern communities.
No, I think you’re probably spot-on in discussing the rural areas. However, you should keep in mind that I’m a big-time city boy, from the urban metropolis that is Tuscaloosa, AL. And if anyone were passing by, they’d wonder why I’m snorting while I’m typing.
-VM
You’re making a fair point, but I feel it’s worth pointing out that it takes two sides to continue a war in culture. Having one symbol to point at is not the only issue here.
-VM
“Sweet home” Alabama gets ahead of SC. Who’d have thought…
Then again, the whole notion in SC of the statehouse-grounds flag being unmovable w/o a legislative supermajority, not even for half-masting, is daft. Why the heck would you do that. Does that mean the flag was at full length for the deaths of former Presidents, 9/11, etc, for 15 years?
And he/she is a lying sack, to boot.
[Moderating]
Yes, this is acceptable language for the Pit. This forum is where posters who feel they have an irreconcilable difference with another poster are allowed to express their feelings in a less constrained fashion. It is not, however, a total free-for-all. See here and here for details on what is and is not allowed in the Pit.
[/Moderating]
Miller, your efforts at education are commendable, but I fear the ass is already out of the barn. “Echo chamber” and “none of you people can even hold down jobs” are clear harbingers of an impending flounce or flame out.
I haven’t read the whole thread, so I may have missed it. But what did he/she lie about?
I’m back. I even looked up flounce. No, I was trying “pit speak” and I find that while fun as a diversion it’s ultimately even more counterproductive than the typical stereotypical internet debate. I also find that being a vulgar, profane, intellectually dishonest bull of a poster may come naturally for some it doesn’t for me. I’d rather debate in more civil areas of this forum.
About the “holding down jobs” you’ll learn you can if you treat people as people even if you disagree.
So, then you’re not leaving us?
Of course not, I just won’t be spending much time in “The Pit.” I’d rather attempt to discuss the issues of the day in an area that has at least the facade of respectability. Insults and “yo mama” jokes can be fun for a bit but ultimately it’s just stupidity. And what type of “pit” is it when you can call someone a “dickhead” and I can’t respond with the first word in the restricted language list?!? Pussyhead just doesn’t cut it for me. Yeah, fun but childish.
A facade of respectability is all you aim for, you dishonest weasel. You’ve been a nasty little insulter since your entrance into this thread, flying just under the Great Debates rules. It’s nice to be able to tell you how contemptible you are, with your hypocritical scoldings of other people.
Not all Southern people engage in this sort of passive-aggressive “I’m not insulting you!” bullshit, but you’re kind of a poster-boy for this ugly part of Southern culture.