Yep fighting terfs it’s a damned ugly job guess you’re the right person for it. Carry on.
If that was intended as an indirect way of calling me “ugly” because I disagree with your arguments, then I don’t think you have a whole lot of room to whine about other posters’ comments being misogynistic. (Or about their describing you as “nasty”, for that matter.)
Further musing: I’m old enough to remember when this same sort of contemptuous dismissiveness about the use of inclusive language was routinely directed at women in general, for objecting to male-default nouns and pronouns.
“Any woman who thinks that being called ‘chairman’ makes her a man is too dumb to be chairman! Haw Haw!”
“Everybody knows that ‘he’ as an indefinite pronoun refers to both men and women! Do you think that women can’t figure out that a sentence like ‘The operator should check his security settings’ applies to them too? You must think women are morons!”
Like I said, preferring inclusive language does not mean that you think the people being excluded by the non-inclusive terms are just too dumb to figure out whether they belong in that group or not. That sort of straw argument was fake and tiresome back when it was being used against women-inclusive language, and it’s fake and tiresome now when it’s being used against trans-inclusive language.
Though then I get to wonder about whether Reproductive Choice Liberation Fund was taken.
Then again, the blunt frankness of “Abortion Liberation Fund” may be of use not just to communicate where they stand but also in the case of some average complacent mainstream middle class liberal pro-choicer running into it, to shake them into taking notice of the problems others have.
i.e. trans people, and thus their allies. The very concept of being trans requires that a trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man. If a trans woman is a man, then she didn’t transition. They are just a delusional person or a liar.
That’s what frustrates me about you. You seem to want to give more credence to the people who discriminate against trans people than trans people themselves. Those acronyms you use would be at home in a TERF organization, but would be pointless among trans people and those who fight for them.
I don’t get the attitude of people who think they get to determine what is and is not bigoted, rather than listening to the minority in question. I don’t get why anyone would even listen to a group who tries to argue that a minority is a threat to a majority, who posits that minority as sexual deviants or mentally ill. It’s the same arguments homophobes loved to use.
And I don’t get why anyone who is pro trans would be okay with misgendering, since misgendering is the whole source of gender dysphoria. The whole point of transitioning is that people identify you as the gender you are, not the gender you were assigned at birth. So it’s especially cruel to reject that transition and claim trans men aren’t men and trans woman aren’t women.
I’m all for having compassion for those who do wrong, to see them not as horrible people but people who need their ignorance fought. But I don’t get acting like their views are equally valid. I don’t get any need to borrow their acronyms as if they have any legitimacy.
There are no people who support trans rights who also claim that trans men are women. Accepting that trans men are men and trans women are women is the foundation of what transgender rights are. Everything other right follows from that.
You’re an entirely new category of simpleton on to yourself, aren’t you?
Here is what a poster described as her recent medical intake form experience:
In the very post you responded to, I suggested the use of “TM” and “TF” in addition to the customary “M” and “F” boxes. I then speculated that some trans advocates who insist on absolutist views of TMAM and TWAW would probably object to that.
I didn’t have to wait long for you to come along and do exactly that, did I?
And what annoys me about you is your inability to hold two contradicting thoughts in your head and assume others are similarly mentally incompetent.
Who said anything about misgendering?.. you seamless muppet.
I honestly don’t understand the difference between TM and TMAM. Help me out here.
TM: How one identifies on a medical form (if applicable).
TMAM: How one identifies and/or shows support at an LGBTQ+ human rights march.
I don’t think this “TMAM” thing is helpful. If you are taking issue with the idea that trans men are men, just say it openly, don’t hide behind an acronym.
I think my medical intake forms were clear, explicit, and elicited the information a medical provider needs, without insulting anyone.
My vet uses four sex fields – M, F, S, N. But we don’t call women who’ve had oophorectomy or men who’ve been castrated “S” or “N” on medical intake forms, even though both those surgeries are somewhat common and that information is medically relevant. I assume we don’t do that because using that terminology would upset a decent fraction of the people it described. Instead, I’ve been asked about major surgeries and sometimes explicitly asked about whether I’ve had a hysterectomy, and if so, were the ovaries removed, too. I see medical professionals using exactly the same template for transmen.
1.2 million Americans identify as non-binary. Most are reproductive age.
TMAM/TWAW are not MY acronyms and I’m no hiding behind anything. I’ve heard them being repeated here by various trans advocates in other threads on the subject.
Identifying as a trans-male or trans-female is insulting in a medical context?
link?
I’ve often seen people write “trans men are men, trans women are women”, but I think this is the first time I’ve seen anyone use those acronyms.
Not letting them say they are “Male” or “Female” is insulting, yes. Just as calling a man who had his balls removed to fight his prostate cancer “Neuter” rather than “Male” is insulting. Or at least, having to check that box, and not just check “M” will be unpleasant for a lot of those to whom it applies. It’s not insulting to elicit that information, which is obviously relevant in a medical setting. The insult is in restricting them from checking “M” on the “gender” field.
You’re a mod. I’m not giving you a link for a search you’re fully capable of doing yourself. FWIW, there are multiple threads that come up when I plug in the search term “TWAW”.
No, it’s not.
Which is why I fully support the changes to medical forms that you yourself described. i.e. 3 questions including what I assume were: sex (biologica/birth), gender, preferred pronouns.
The only place we differ is that I suggested that instead of just the common two of M/F there be two more: TM and TF. But I’m not insisting on it and I have zero objections to the approach you described. That said, is it objectionable or insulting to describe a person who checks, Sex: M and Gender: F, as a trans-female? Again, keeping the medical context in mind.
It depends on the context. If you consistently refer to someone as a trans woman, to the point of avoiding calling her a woman, that could be insulting. Or maybe this is a good place to pull out the termo “micro-aggression”. If it’s relevant to the conversation to say that she’s a trans woman, no, that’s not insulting. But if you ALWAYS think it’s relevant, well, maybe that is insulting.
And that’s fair enough. I should not have used the term “identifies” because that’s not really accurate. But is it how one shows support? I’ve certainly seen it used here in that manner by trans advocates.
I showed support for trans rights at a PRIDE event by showing up at the trans rally and marching with the group. I show support for individual non-binary and trans people by using the pronouns and names they ask me to use, and not making a fuss about it. I think these are fairly typical ways of expressing support.
I was very specific about the context in which it may be used. I would not insist on using that term when interacting with a trans person - that would be rude and cruel. I would use whatever term they stated was their preference.
What in the hell is a trans advocate?!
I know people who consider themselves supporters and allies of trans people (I consider myself one, I have multiple trans friends I care about) but who advocates for it?
That’s like suggesting it’s being pushed on people. 
I use the term interchangeably/synonymously. If there is a preference for trans-allies, I’m perfectly happy to switch terms.