According to this 2007 study, “evidence of resistance” and “past sexual history” are taken into consideration during South Korean rape trials.
While the South Korean judicial system takes rape cases seriously, culturally the focus is on rape as a violation of a woman’s chastity or purity, and less so on the violation of the woman herself. Rape is seen as grievous because it robs a woman of her purity (and, by extension, marriageability), not so much because it’s physically and psychologically painful to the woman. Rape is some cultures (including our own until not that long ago) can be seen as a property crime.
What this means is that the defense is going to do everything they can to cast doubt on the purity of the woman in question. Not only are you going to have every sexual encounter they can find torn apart and put on display at the trial (which can be extremely hurtful to a woman in a sexually conservative culture- what is your family going to think? Who is going to marry you after everything you’ve ever done has been paraded in front of everyone?) but they will replay that evening over and over, rewriting each and every bit to make it look like you were begging for it.
Perhaps she was trying to tell you before any of them could? Or, if she does feel that she ‘ruined,’ she meant it as a warning to you?
When I thought this had occurred in the US, I thought it sounded more like a case where a therapist tells her or his patient what might happen should she report her rape (not to prevent her from doing it, but as a caution) and she takes this as advice not to. This happens with counselors, too. They’ve got a responsibility to tell victims what could conceivably happen during a rape investigation, so they can brace themselves for invasive inspections and questions, even if they want them to go to the police.
Thanks for the insights everyone. Though I’m even more confused now, more information is always good.
Where are you getting this from? My dinner date plans? Huh? Why are you so hellbent on depicting me as some sort of monster? Is it because I’m an Asian male? Because we all beat our wives and treat women like shit, you know.
I was initially very distraught and angry at the therapist and the shithole neighborhood where the rape allegedly took place and obviously the rapist. But it dawned on me that she could be lying, which made me feel like an idiot because I was in fact very upset about the whole incident, and no one likes being made the fool.
It should be also be noted that my initial decision to not be friends was before she told me about the rape. What I knew at that point was that she wasn’t over her ex, and I didn’t want to be one of those tools (yes tools) that listen to women bitch about other men and then bitch about being a “nice guy”, when in fact you’re just a doormat.
Look, if she comes to me for support for whatever inexpicable reason, I’ll offer what can but I would be doing so at my own risk because she could be just toying with me and I’m a pretty gullible fellow.
Her interpretation is from the fact that you said you “do not believe in male-female friendships.” Thus you are a priori saying you cannot be friends with someone due only to their sex. This is sexism, just as saying that you can’t be friends with a black person is racism.
And it’s also a rather bad pickup technique: having female friends is a great way to have them set up dates for you, and it gives you social proof.
(Based on his language, I’m pretty sure the guy understands PUA terminology.)
Heh, I had to look that up, PUA. I’m a pick-up artist now? I really have no clue how you were able to decipher that from my language, but thanks for the advice bro, I’ll be keepin my game tight wid dat social proof, yo.
Oh and sex and race are not analogous by any stretch of the imagination. So according to you, if I was racist as much as I was sexist, I would only have sex with Black people, but not want to be their friend right?
But I get that you’re trying to say I’m sexist, so I’ll start with that.
I guess this stems from the whole male/female friendship comment which was not supposed to be the focal point of this thread. To clarify, it seems to me that the majority of male/female friendships I see tend to be lopsided with either the girl wanting something more with the guy, or the guy with the girl, the latter being more common. Both parties are often aware of this unspoken dynamic to some degree. With opposite sex friends, platonic affection, admiration, love etc and romantic affection etc. often get blurred which is more of a headache than it’s worth in my opinion. So no, it’s not that I think that women are without value other than as sex objects. I’m sure there many fun, intelligent, fascinating, wonderful women out there worth their weight in salt (hell I’ve known quite a few as acquaintances), but due to human nature, can there truly be a platonic opposite sex friendship? Maybe so, but I’m skeptical.
(Oh and I enjoyed your little aside in the parantheses BigT, because the OP can’t read what’s in between parantheses. Thanks for leveling with me in PUA terms I could understand)
No clue what goes on in Korea, but generally re relationships when someone you barely know drops a bomb like this, with claimed improbable behavior by professionals thrown in I’d be very wary about believing everything she’s telling you. Actually getting slipped a roofie or similar, and then raped is extraordinarily rare in real life. Drinking to excess and getting taken advantage of, or otherwise regretting your actions later, is far more common.
Anything is possible, she could be 100% on the up and up, but I don’t think I’d bet the farm on it.
I owe you an apology Grey Area. This one hit too close to home and probably brought up a few of my own unresolved issues, and the thing I said to you were misplaced and really uncalled for. I do find your attitude towards women pretty offensive (I don’t really care what your reasons are- you’re good enough to fuck but not good enough to be friends with is never going to sit well with the class of people you are writing off) but that’s neither here nor there.
astro, as outlined, the behavior by the therapist is not improbable at all.
No worries even sven. I still think you’re being a little unfair in assuming that all I’m looking for is sex. As much as I love sex (who doesn’t, right?), it’s not really a priority. What I’m looking for with women is not friendship or sex (exclusively), it’s something more along the lines of “romantic companionship”. A relationship I guess. Kind of churns my stomach to write that. Sounds more smoove than I would like, but hey it’s the truth. I’m not going to lie, I expect sex to be a part of that to some degree, but it’s not the only or the most important factor.
So there. Am I still an asshole?
WHOA right there — this is completely inappropriate. If you have a problem with even sven, the Pit is the place to take it. You are not permitted to a) derail threads with extraneous garbage about other posters and b) insult other posters.
And this is to everybody: never is this kind of thing allowed, in any SDMB forum besides the the BBQ Pit. So if you’d like to rake someone over the red-hot coals, do it there.
Wait a minute - that was not an insult. How is it an insult when all I did was summarize what she said herself? Basically even sven attacked grey area for wanting to (in her view) use someone for sex. And then I linked to a thread where she admits she…uses people for sex. Where did I attack her? I didn’t assign a value judgment at all, outside of expressing that if he’s going to feel bad for what he thinks, it shouldn’t be because she said anything.
I don’t think you’re an asshole, but I’m probably not going to be comfortable with your statements.
Picture if I said “it seems to me that the majority of Asian/Caucasian friendships I see tend to be lopsided with either the the Asian wanting to do business with the Caucasian, or the the Caucasian with the Asian, the latter being more common. Both parties are often aware of this unspoken dynamic to some degree. With Asian/Caucasian friendships, friendly affection, admiration, love etc and business dealings etc. often get blurred which is more of a headache than it’s worth in my opinion. So no, it’s not that I think that Asians are without value other than as business partners. I’m sure there many fun, intelligent, fascinating, wonderful Asians out there worth their weight in salt (hell I’ve known quite a few as acquaintances), but due to human nature, can there truly be a non-business Asian/Caucasian friendship? Maybe so, but I’m skeptical.”
Wouldn’t you be the least bit offended that I might be willing to start a company with you, but wouldn’t be willing to go out to dinner with you if it wasn’t about business? Wouldn’t you prefer to be judged and valued as an individual human being, rather than as some huge and diverse class full of people you may or may not have anything in common with?
You are not called upon to analyze the credibility of other posters and then dismiss their contributions, which you did in a sneering fashion. That’s insulting. Don’t do it again.
Again, the relationship between different racial groups and the sexes are too different to make too many useful comparisons, beyond rather forced sounding analogies like the one above.
You’re making a business relationship the equivalent of a romantic relationship, which doesn’t work because the former implies a less personal relationship than a friendship, while the latter implies a more personal relationship vs friendship.
I think you’re missing the point a bit. I’m not making some sort of judgement call about women. It’s more about the dynamic between men and women. There’s bound to be some romantic/sexual attraction from at least one end (if from both ends, then it aint gonna be a friendship for long), which in my opinion doesn’t make for the healthiest of friendships because it creates opportunities for one party to take advantage. Among other problems.
If you really want to make an equivalent situation it would be a woman saying the exact same thing I did, and according to some schools of feminist thought men = women in all relevant aspects so it works rather well. My sex is being “written off” for friendship and quite frankly I don’t have a problem.
To be fair, I don’t think that was the intent of what the OP meant. I would translate it to, “I don’t want to be just friends with someone I’m attracted to and am interested in sex with.” It certainly doesn’t include people he can have sex AND be friends with.
I could be wrong, because it was pretty vaguely stated, but that’s how my guy sense interpreted it, and it is a very common thing with guys. It is a very frustrating thing for a guy to be an attractive woman’s non-sexual friend.
Oops, I see by the OPs last post that my interpretation was wrong. The OP feels that there MUST be some sexual attraction from one side or the other, and apparently frustrating that that attraction is bad, and therefor a friendship is bad without an outlet for the sexual tension.
So I’m back on your page, even sven. The OP’s attitude is sexist and offensive.
To be clear, the part that stretched my credulity was that a person would be advised by a therapist to be quiet about a rape, not that they would subsequently speak about it to a stranger. I was particularly dubious as there is a suggestion that the person was in therapy as a consequence of the rape. “Last week I was drugged and raped - I’ve been seeing a therapist about it, and they said I shouldn’t go to the police, because that would only worsen the trauma.”
For me, this seemed dubious because it put the responsibility for the decision not to report on her therapist’s advice, while the circumstance of her going through the process of getting into therapy before filing a police report itself demonstrates an existing disinclination to report.
Of course, this is before it was made clear that we’re talking about something that was supposed to have occurred in Korea, and I have no idea how things generally are there.
I know that what you are saying makes sense to you, but it really is very far out there and relies on some pretty bizarre ideas of gender. Most people do not automatically experience sexual tension with every single person of the opposite sex, and when it is there, most people can handle some low-level sexual tension without their heads exploding. Obviously it’s going to be a problem if you are BFF with a woman you have a huge crush on, but most people can handle grabbing lunch with, say, their married co-worker, even if they do think she has a wicked cute smile.
I imagine that some of this is cultural. I think American culture in general doesn’t separate the sexes as much as other cultures, and doesn’t put as much value on maintaining “mystique” between the genders, so there is just less sexual tension in general.
I’m sorry about the situation & and the fact that you are upset over it. In response to the OP, I would say that being “gullible” in this situation is preferable to not believing this woman. If you believe her and invest, what did you lose if it turns out she was lying? I always think that someone sad enough to tell a lie like that deserves some help anyway. You may at some point want to stop investing in such a person & start getting them more professional help, but the damage would surely be minimal. If you choose not to help because you don’t believe her story, and it turns out to be true… how would you feel about that? Looking at it from that perspective, I think it’s easy to decide what to do regardless of how likely it is to discuss such things candidly or the likelihood of the Korean therapist’s advice.
I would like to comment that I am personally deeply offended that you would not want to be friends with women. So offended I would not want to be friends with you. Because I judge people individually, on the way they behave.
Also consider how irrational your statement is with regards to the vast spectrum of gender and sexuality. Would you be friends with homosexual men? With lesbian women? How about transgendered people? How about heterosexual women who produce lots of testosterone? How about your sister? How about a woman you don’t consider attractive, and who doesn’t consider you attractive?
On the off chance this is a manufactured tale, IMO being involved with people who tell wild stories for kicks or attention is potentially quite hazardous as they are effectively professional liars and may craft some nonsense about you if you displease them, and their relationships often tend to be using and manipulative.