Lovers of wisdom, lovers of honour, lovers of gain. Was Plato right? Most men I know want you to be proud of their (perceived) achievements…
You must mean something else. But if not; Why would I be proud of some guy’s perceived achievements? Or why would he want me to?
Maybe you’re one of the other two kinds?
There are only three classes of men: those who can count, and those who cannot.
What about the class of men in counting class who cannot yet count cans? (I call these Schrödinger’s men. No I don’t…. Anyway, I’m not counting those.)
Yes, but what sort of achievements? All three categories include achievements one might be proud of.
If that’s what he said, then no. There are other things to love, and one can love more than one thing equally (making some decisions really hard).
I would put it as, “Most men want to be known and recognized for their perceived achievements”. That would be a form of honor.
I further suggest that few men are all of one class. I’d rank my “lovees” as wisdom, with honour a close second. Gain is last, but that probably has something to do with my never having been really poor.
ETA: What @Roderick_Femm’s second sentence said.
The kind that want to watch the World burn.
Don’t most people want to be recognized for their achievements? I thought a common women’s lament was hard work with no recognition (be it at home or in the workplace).
I see no reason women can’t be lovers of wisdom, honour or gain. I see no reason why men can’t be lovers of food, women or sports. I agree everyone wants to be praised for achievement and this might include any above category.
There are only 10 classes of men: those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
Nah, there are infinite types of men and infinite types of women. I’m not sure what we gain by trying to divide huge groups of disparate people into arbitrary categories. At best it is a conversation starting point, nothing more. A point from which you are likely to swiftly diverge once you engage with the individual.
I think there are only two classes of people; people who do what they want, and people who aspire to being a position to do what they want. I say that because, in the end, people dedicate themselves to wisdom because that is what they want to do. People help others because that is what they want to do. In the end, people like Mother Teresa and people like Adolf Hitler have one thing in common; they are doing what they want to do.
IME there are not many lovers of wisdom or honor. Love of gain is common despite so many who are not very good at it.
If Plato said that I would like to assume there is something to it. He is most likely referring to their primary drivers in life. I would think of honor as integrity, but he may have been referring to a more narcissistic version where someone wants to be admired by others. Wisdom could be something as simple as understanding as much as possible within one’s own sphere of existence, I can see a lot of overlap in these three traits.
I want to be known for the theorems I have proved and the concepts I have created. I think that is achievements.
Right, but those are achievements in the category of wisdom.
I read “honor” as more referring to valorous deeds, as in battle.
(my emphasis)
damn - Plato knew a lot about your avg. lead-guitarrist before they became a thing!!!
I’m reading it more like this:
Wisdom - means that someone is driven by the gaining of knowledge and wisdom, independent of what others think, or what it gets them.
Honor - means that someone is driven by how they’re perceived by others for their deeds, independent of whether they learn anything, or gain anything from it.
Gain - means that they’re driven by gaining/acquiring power or property, independent of what others think or if they learn anything.
I think that back in Plato’s time, honor was effectively synonymous with martial valor - it was what was respected. But now, it’s a bit wider of a concept- someone can be driven by honor and yet not be a soldier - they can be concerned with their reputation or social status, etc…