Who's more honorable in relationships, men or women?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Let me preface this by saying that I consider myself a feminist. Women should get equal pay, be treated as equals, be able to be in the military in any role, are just as intelligent, and should not have to be submissive in any way shape or form. I like strong independent women with unique qualities. In fact the 50’s traditional(self-oppressing) woman is the one I’m least attracted to. (Also I’ve gotten plenty, get plenty have had very long term monogamous relationships. I am not bitter, just disappointed.)

However, in the US at least where I live and I get the impression is is how it is everywhere there seem to me to be a great number of disparities in the behavior of men and women in relationships.

These are generalities, please don’t argue back by saying “I don’t do this.” or “Not all of X do this.” I’m looking for general trends to critique not exceptions disproving the rules.

A man is usually straightforward and attracted to a woman because of her looks and personality. A woman on the other hand will be attracted to a man because of how successful he is more than his looks or personality, even to the point where she’ll have relationships with some pretty awful guys and stick with them for status and/or security. Guys will go out with the inverse woman for awhile but then leave a sinking ship when he realizes she’s all looks and nothing else.

A man will usually be more casual than a woman, just wanting to have a good time where the woman throws down commitment requirements to proceed.

A woman is defended socially in being angry at a boyfriend or husband who goes out with friends where the man won’t usually and if he did he’d be considered a jealous douche.

If a man and woman get pregnant but aren’t mutually committed the woman can take the baby to term and demand marriage or child support. The guy only has the condom to help him out there, and those do fail just fine, and if the couple doesn’t use one well it’s both of their choice unless something horrible is going on.

Men will generally be honest and openly pursue women he finds attractive. Women generally will set lures out and hope to be pursued but will generally not go for any man just because he’s attractive and has a good personality. A man generally has to fit into specific criteria for the woman even to see him as anything but a nuisance.

Theres plenty more I suppose but it’s a good start.

2

Cites? :dubious:

3

I’m curious. Does ever Great Debate need cites?

4

Just my opinion from personal experience. I’m sure all of what I said could be said better but there are certainly different approaches to relationships by gender and it strikes me that the male approach is more honest and honorable. If I’m wrong I am inviting people to tell me why. People that agree with me are free to clarify, add or elaborate.

This is not a sociology thesis paper, it’s just a forum for debate among fellow interneters.

5

So, it strikes you “that the male approach is more honest and honorable,” but you have offered no evidence that what you present as the male approach even exists. You are invited to provide cites that your categorization of these relationship approaches as based on gender is indeed valid. Until you do that, there isn’t anything to debate, see? There’s just your unsupported opinion flapping out there in the wind, which is more of an IMHO topic AFAIAC.

6

So if I had a poll or crackpot youtube video it would be legitimate for me to bring this up for debate. How many topics in this forum actually have anything but non-personal sources of personal opinion as their basis?

7

OK, my opinion from my personal experience is almost exactly the opposite…so where does that leave us?

I’m well prepared to believe that *you *keep choosing to pursue beautiful, clingy, insecure golddiggers, but I think that tells me more about you than it does about gender politics.

(The abortion thing I think I agree with you on, if what you’re saying is that biology gives women one more chance than men to accept or decline a pregnancy, and it’s a damn shame our culture and legal system haven’t been able to figure out how to make that more fair for men, but I’m not really sure what it has to do with the rest of your rant.)

8

So… you want statistics on infidelity and abuse and divorce and whatnot? I’m not sure how to evaluate “honor”.

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Men certainly seem more likely to kill their women in the name of honor.

10

Or to kill other men in the name of honor, often at the urging of women.

To answer the OP, I don’t think either gender is “more honorable”. Both genders have plenty of liars, manipulators, betrayers and cheaters; the style and goals may tend to differ between the genders but the sleaze is universal.

11

I just want people to give their opinion, if you have cites that support your case great. Many people will respond to something like this simply stating that because this isnot always tre that it invalidates the premise, but this is about general trends, you can say what you think the general trands are of course and your perception may very well be different than mine which is fine. (Not sure what is so hard about this concept).

For sure men are guilty of more crime related to relationships. It;s valid to bring up but I’m thinking of the non-psycho-violent-criminal involved relationships. You know “normal” people that you generally know and have gone out with or whatnot.

Being honorable in this context I define as being honest, not being the opposite of honest, liking people for non-shallow/status reasons I’d say is another one.

12

Were you aware of another forum here that was specifically created as a place to share your unsupported opinion and solicit the opinions of others?

13

Okay, well…the pick-up artist “community” is almost entirely made up of men, for starters. How honorable are their tactics? Not very, I’d say.

As Argent Towers points out, men are more likely to cause physical harm to their partners, and more injury in each incident.

Societies which subject their women to oppressive and/or physically damaging clothing, sexual surgeries, reduced opportunities for education, decreased ability to build wealth and lack of voice in their governments are, sadly, all too common all around the world. Name me a single existing country where elected women leaders similarly oppress men as a class. Now tell me that a whole country full of such men are “honorable” in their dating lives.

14

So, what I said, only more concise, right?

Noncrackpot YouTube videos are acceptable, too. As to your question, I would say [counts on fingers] many hundreds, possibly thousands over the life of the board. Facts, polls, studies, surveys and the like can be used to back up opinion or even form the basis for an opinion.

Here’s my opinion, then. I’m not like the women you describe in your OP, and IMO not all women are like these women. Ditto that for men; not all of them are like the men you claim to be the norm. I think matters of honor are not likely to have any connection to gender whatsoever. If you can scrape up any reasonably credible evidence that even suggests otherwise, I’d love to see it.

15

To the OP: If those are your general opinions of the female sex, maybe you should start hanging around with more decent women.

16

This is what jumps out at me from your OP - you categorise attraction based on “looks and personality” to be “straightforward” but based on “success” to be … presumably not? How do you figure that? Aren’t you just assuming that “looks” is a “good” or “straightforward” criterion for judging a mate, whereas “success” is not because you’re a bloke and that’s how men usually do judge? In fact, too much success is actually detrimental to women looking for a mate. Is avoiding a relationship with someone who’s too successful more “straightforward” than persuing someone for that reason?

Assuming of course that your factual analysis of people’s criteria is actually accurate, YMMV, yadda yadda yadda

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The problem is that "honour"and “honorable” are not objective, factual descriptive words. They don’t describe ja clear cut behavior, like eating or sleeping or killing. They describe an amalgam of a behavior, social circumstances, and half-subconscious values in the person describing behavior as honorable.

There is really not much of a debate her untill you have figured all of these out. Otherwise you are just indulging in inter gender game of in psychological self justification. And while that can be fun, it is a game, not a debate.

18

Plus swords. Honor usually seems to involve swords sooner or later.

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“In a cross-cultural study by David Buss, men and women were asked to rank certain traits in order of importance in a long-term partner. Both men and women ranked “kindness” and “intelligence” as the two most important factors. Men valued beauty and youth more highly than women, while women valued financial and social status more highly than men.” -wikipedia quoting David Buss

So if we eliminate similarities here we see that women out themselves (which I’ve heard women say in person and in other media plenty of times) that men are attracted to youth and beauty along with what men and women are attracted to kindness and intelligence where women value financial and social status more.

I didn’t think I’d need a cite for this since it’s pretty obvious if you’ve lived in a western culture for any length of time, but there you go.

20

you’re saying you think men go for women for their financial status and social status over their attractiveness (and youth) and that women go for attractiveness (and youth lol) over financial status and attractiveness? Women tend to be more straightforward?