And with that, I’m moving this thread to IMHO from Great Debates.
Sure pick-up artists are not particularly honorable. Though I’d say the kind of guys you’re talking about are pretty rare.
I’m talking about how people have sexual relationships at the common level not extremes of antisocial or criminal behavior. I’m also talking mostly about western culture, obviously arranged marriage is about as dishonorable as you get toward women. female circumcision, we ca have a parade of examples of horrors women have endured. I am not talking about that. I’m talking about western, modern non-criminal relationships. I am also not talking about discrimination in society generally. We can have another thread about that and most everyone will agree that women have been hosed for a long time in plenty of areas. I am talking about how men and women behave in the typical male with female relationship without physical abuse.
Again the exceptions do not disprove anything here. Its not specifically gender connected. I do not think women are born less honorable in relationships but I think in western society today they are raised to be.
How does a man get pregnant?
I’m already dreading the direction this thread will go, but I wanted to ask anyway: the primary distinction you give between how men and women choose their mates is youth/looks (for males) and status/wealth (for women). How did you get from that to the conclusion that men are more “honest”, “non-shallow”, and women are more “straight forward”?
And how do you know your experience is the rule and not the exception?
They need to do way instain mother.
Argument by insult. Novel.
Huh?
being straightforward I’m not referring to what motivates the person I’m talking about the interactions. A woman who likes a guy might complain at the end of the night, “I stood alone over at the bar several times but he never came over. I’m so bummed.” a guy would say, “That chick totally shot me down when I tried to talk to her dude. I’m so bummed.”
The guy will initiate and be blunt. The girl will not initiate and pretend not to be very interested even if they are.
I disagree. The pick up artist male is quite common.
If that’s all you’re talking about - guys tend to initiate contact - why bring up all that other stuff? By the way, I disagree about the “pretending not to be interested” part.
I said men were more straightforward. Honesty is a separate issue. Being attracted to someone because of their financial status and/or success is pretty shallow if you ask me. Being attracted to looks is natural and a pure thing and theres nothing bad about it. Anyone who ignores personality to a ridiculous degree at the preference of other factors is usually very shallow.
That’s is not all Im talking about, it’s just one example.
Being attracted to a man because of his financial status is shallow but being attracted to a woman because of her looks isn’t. Rather its “pure and natural”? LOL.
How bout if someone can show you that there may be a biological reason for women to be attracted to a financially secure man? would that make it “pure” in your eyes?
I disagree. Being interested in the future, especially when contemplating raising children is very logical. Financial stability is directly related. Being interested based only on physical attraction is not only reckless, it shows a complete lack of maturity.
Human interaction can be a finicky thing, this is true. I think the question you should be asking yourself is, “Are these behaviors I’m noticing an artifact of confirmation bias? That is, are women who don’t act like this merely escaping my notice as opposed to obstinately not existing?” Once you’ve answered that question then you can move onto the next, which is “Are these innate characteristics of women or are they societally motivated behaviors?”
Now, from my perspective, as a man who does not view women as relationship partners in the same way as you and having experience in relationships with a man, I feel I must opine that much of what people attribute to the battle of the sexes is really the battle of two people trying to bring separate lives to the same place.
I realize that English it not the OPs first language so his point may be lost in translation. I doubt in his native language it makes any sense either.
I really don’t see the distinction. It’s perfectly “natural” to be attracted to good looks AND financial status, and it’s almost a tautology that good looking people and succesful people both make better mates everything else being equal. Neither criterium is inherently good or bad. See also naturalistic fallacy (especially when you start calling things “pure”).
No, it wouldn’t. Animal instincts are not an excuse. Men could dismiss violence the same way which would be absurd.
There is nothing negative to being attracted to looks. If you are only attracted to looks obviously that causes problems but I already said that men and women are both attracted to kindness and intelligence. The looks are important to men sure, but they are to women too, just to a much lesser degree. It’s not the lack of women being attracted to looks that is disturbing. It’s that status is more important than looks or personality to most women (in the west, modern culture yadda yadda).
If you think young and middle aged men should be sexually attracted to women in their 90’s because of their charm… Thing is young and middle aged women will go out with guys in their 90’s for their wealth and status.