There is no 'date rape' drug that works in some of the ways reported is there?

Factual Questions
1

I know everyone is tired of hearing about the Bill Cosby accusations and has their mind made up one way or the other. However, this is a factual question that applies not only to these cases but to similar ones. I don’t want this thread to be personal or political, just purely factual no matter how you feel about the subject.

Vanity Fair has this direct quote from one of the accusers. Others have given similar statements.

“I knew by the second sip of the drink Cosby had given me that I’d been drugged—and drugged good.”

I have an academic background in behavioral neuroscience and psychopharmacology. To the best of my knowledge, there is no orally administered drug that can do that. Oral administration tends to be fairly slow unlike anything you see in the movies. You can give something that is relatively fast acting orally (minutes not seconds) but it will be highly dose dependent and you can kill someone if you don’t give the dose within a really tight tolerance. Drugs that depress basic brain functions simply won’t work if the dose is too low and will kill a person if it is too high. That isn’t something you can simply look up either. It is highly individual specific and takes real-time monitoring to work out. That is why anesthesiologists make the big bucks.

I have no doubt that that many people take advantage of people when they have had too much to drink over a few hours but is there any plausible drug that can be slipped into a drink that will serve as a shortcut after a few sips? Yes, I am asking if the concept of a ‘Mickey’ is as real as Spanish Fly Drops that were advertised in the back of magazines when I was a teenager?

2

Stab in the dark: Versed?

3

I don’t think so, not as you describe it. But some painkillers will have a numbing effect on the lips or tongue that you can notice pretty readily, and a person would likely be able to suspect right away that the drink was spiked (whether or not these substances are actually effective as the “knockout drops” you see in cartoons).

4

I don’t know what you are referring to.

5

He’s referring to Versed, a medication sometimes administered orally. It is a benzodiazepine that causes drowsiness as a side effect. It would shock me if it worked that quickly. If Cosby used a drug that powerful on as many women as he used it on, some of them would likely have ended up dead. Most likely he used the same old standbys, alcohol and GHB or similar and relied on the women being too confused, ashamed and frightened to make any accusations.

6

You might know it as Midazolam.

7

Ambien works very fast. That said, I think you would need to take the whole pill at once for the “immediacy” effect. If someone crushed it in a drink, you probably wouldn’t get enough after just a couple of sips to be knocked out-- unless someone put it in a shot, but then you probably wouldn’t have a lot of time to think.

I have Ambien because I have bad insomnia, and I have a regular medication I take daily that helps a lot, so I don’t take Ambien often-- mostly when my sleep schedule gets upset, and I need to reset it, and occasionally when I had “super-insomnia” attacks, when I just can’t sleep without additional medicine.

I was shocked at how fast it hit me the first time I took it. I took it in the bathroom after I brushed my teeth, and was staggering and feeling anesthetized by the time I got to my bed. When the instructions say “take immediately before bed,” they aren’t kidding. Get into bed, and keep the pills and a glass of water on your nightstand. My doctor says the reason that a lot of people sleepwalk on the drug is that they don’t understand how to take it, and take it before they get into bed, then get confused. She says you can actually fall asleep while walking on Ambien. I have no knowledge or background to debate this particular point-- just mentioning it because it came from my MD.

I suppose if you have taken Ambien before, you might be familiar with its effects enough to know when you have had a small amount, but then I would think you would put the glass down and stop drinking, because after two sips, I wouldn’t think you’d have enough of it to be out of control, even if you’d be woozy. I’ve never mixed alcohol and Ambien, though. Maybe they pack a wallop together. Or maybe Cosby was diabolical enough to crush more than one in a drink, so that two sips would have a lot-- he’d have to carefully make sure the woman didn’t finish the drink, though, if he didn’t want a corpse on his hands.

Versed makes you forget, so I doubt someone could describe the situation so well if Versed were used, although I suppose some kind of alcohol-Versed-Ambien cocktail could have a compounding effect in regard to making someone lose control or pass out, but there wouldn’t be enough Versed to cause a blackout.

8

I don’t know about the “second sip,” but Xanax has an onset of 20-40 minutes, and I know from experience that it will render me completely plient. I have a severe dental phobia, and under Xanax three root canals felt like a trip to the relaxation spa.

9

Oral midazolam (Versed) is extremely short-acting. It can’t produce the effects reported by those accusing Cosby, which were long-lasting.

Flunitrazepam as Rohypnol was introduced in 1975, which is after the first dates made by accusers. Zolpidem (Ambien) is implicated as a date rape drug but is even newer. I don’t see any dates in the Wikipedia article about GHB (gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid) so that may be older. It’s more dangerous in alcohol so it would be safer in cappuccino although it’s strong taste may affect the drink noticeably.

Could a drug affect people extremely quickly? Possibly. Ambien is said to have near immediate effects on some people in large doses and users can feel the effect coming on. Rohypnol may also do so. Both are associated with amnesiac effects so that the events around taking them are lost, which may result in seemingly immediate effects even if that’s not literally true.

I’m not saying that either were used by Cosby even under the assumption that his accusers are correct, just that quick effects of drugs don’t surprise me as much as the OP. The Vanity Fair article linked to by Shagnasty quotes Beverly Johnson as saying she “experimented with my fair share of mood enhancers.” I wouldn’t be surprised if some in large doses were noticeable extremely quickly. But notice that her experience lasted some time before she blacked out. That’s not the same thing as immediately blackness.

10

Here is the Wikipedia page on date rape drugs:

It notes that according to the DEA, Ambien is the most cited date rape drug.

11

What about chloral hydrate in booze? It makes you sleep and it has a reputation as a hypnotic.

I actually was given chloral hydrate once for a medical test where I had to be asleep and I couldn’t fall asleep at 10 in the morning. I know it’s not an approved drug, but hey, it was the 70’s.
I’m having dental surgery soon, and even sven’s experience makes me wish I could take a Xanax, but I have to drive myself home so it’s nothing but the needle in the jaw.

12

You have a background in psychopharmacology and you don’t know what Versed is? I’ll give you that, but I’m surprised you didn’t just go look it up.
To add to what the other poster said, it hits you VERY fast (at least when given via IV your body will feel the effects in about two minutes) and the main reason that it’s used so often is that it causes anterograde amnesia. That is, anything that happens about two minutes after taking it until about an hour later is just wiped from your memory. Ask someone that’s had an endoscopy how it was and they’ll tell you that they don’t remember a thing, they got an injection (versed and some other stuff) and then woke up in the recovery room. In reality they were in a twilight sleep so they could still communicate with the doctor.

13

What about having gas for the dental work? I have a horrible dental phobia and an over-active gag reflex, so I get gas even when I just have cleanings (I have thrown up while having my teeth cleaned). The shot, which used to make me cry, is nothing when you are on the gas. Bug bite. Recovery from the gas doesn’t take so long-- just ten minutes or so. You would just need to sit in the waiting room for a few minutes after a brief recovery in the chair with oxygen.

If your insurance won’t cover it, and it’s too expensive to have for the whole procedure, you could just get it to relax you beforehand, and get you through getting the numbing shots, then have the work done without it.

My insurance didn’t cover it at all until my dentist wrote a letter explaining that I needed to keep from vomiting while lying on my back (danger of aspiration), and now insurance covers 80% of it. I think that’s what they cover for anesthesia if you have surgery, which is where the number came from.

14

While speaking of fast-acting, amnesia-inducing drugs:

What is the drug used when intubating a patient?

Last time anyone tried, it was discovered that I can no longer be intubated (long story) and the drug wore off while we still trying.

It wouldn’t work so well as a date-rape drug - very short acting. She/he would be alert long before you were done.

15

Thiopental ?

16

Was Ambient around at the time? According to a couple sites, it was developed between 1977 and 1985, but was first prescribed in the 90s. When did the alleged rapes take place? (I’m one of the few who know little about the story, I can live without reading rape details)

17

Versed is a band name name for midazolam - a benzodiazepine like Valium or Librium and I didn’t recognize the reference as being a drug name at all so forgive me for that. Administering a benzodiazepine or any similar drug via IV is completely different than giving the same one orally. Controlled IV administration can put someone down in a matter of seconds. Intranasal administration of things like nitrous oxide (laughing gas) can also have a very rapid effect but oral administration generally takes minutes or longer to work at all and the dose has to be carefully controlled so that the person taking it doesn’t end up dead after they go unconscious if the dose is too high.

That is point of the question. I am disputing the fact that there is any drug that can be taken orally that reliably causes unconsciousness in a short period of time among people that are willingly drinking anything without obvious and extreme risk (besides the effects on the taste of the drink). I believe that specific claim is an urban legend but I am willing to be proven wrong. What specific drug(s) could match the reported results with both an expectation of reliability for the one doing it and a reasonable degree of safety for the victim after it wears off?

These claims are very old as well so more modern drugs do not apply. Even still, I don’t think there are any that are good candidates even today but you can correct me if I am wrong. Again, the question is just about dropping something into a drink and having someone black out only to wake up the next morning wondering what happened and not anything else.

18

Oh, I have no idea whether Ambien fits Cosby’s timeframe. I just brought it up as an example of a drug that acted so quickly, you felt drugged almost immediately upon taking it. If there is Ambien, there are probably others.

The possibility that the women were exaggerating or misremembering exists as well, though. I wouldn’t trust my memory for events immediately before I took an Ambien, or, if it were the case, immediately after (I take it sitting in bed, and don’t do anything but put down the water glass and pull up the covers afterwards).

19

I used to take Ambien (check your insurance - mine is severely restricting it) - I have an insane tolerance for sedatives, but: I was irrational but quite awake 10 hours after taking two of the damned things.

If you find your insurance not covering it, try temazepam (Restoril, among others) - it is a much smoother sleep and does not have the nasty side effects of Ambien (zolpidem).

20

Librium was the first benzodiazepine (1960)
Valium came out in 1963
Ambien hit market in early 90’s (google “zolpidem history” - find Donald Rumsfeld!)