Democracy is, I believe, by far the ideal form of human governance, and best suited for the happiness and individual fulfillment of the vast majority of the populace, but Thailand’s democracy was never terribly healthy or deeply-rooted, as Siam Sam has explained. I’m glad to hear the military junta has done some good from what he sees in his daily life (we can all think of far worse military dictatorships), but I do wish that a more stable, democratic nation were in the making. Right now, I’m not at all sure that it is, or even can be, given what Thailand has become.
His blog, his rules. :dubious: I was going to practice some Lèse majesté in here and see how Siam Sam appreciated his new government as opposed to the “filth” when the filters picked it up, but I am not a prick.
Right, because all the previous governments of whatever stripe would have ignored something like that. :rolleyes:
I have not read this entire gargantuan thread, so I really don’t know what the various squabbles are.
However, I don’t need to read the entire gargantuan thread to know that in MPSIMS, [ol]
[li]You shouldn’t be slinging personal insults[/li][li]And you should keep any disagreements online, and not take them IRL[/li][/ol]
Anyone who’s not observing those two guidelines, knock it the fuck off.
twickster, MPSIMS moderator
It’s not that they can’t govern themselves, it’s that a western form of government was foisted upon them (constitutional monarchy) following the Second World War. The Thais actually had very little say in it. And it’s a western form of government they had no experience with, and actually doesn’t suit a lot of Asian nations well as they have a tradition of a more Father child sort of government culture. A culture that shuns criticism of authority as disrespectful. As a result Asian democracies should never be judged against western democracies.
It’s not enough for the west to export democracy, for some reason they feel the need to criticize if it is not being practiced to western standards. It’s a very different culture, is should be different from our democracy. And they are still somewhat new at it.
If the Thais are happy changing government by coup, and they would seem to be, then we should let them do so without criticism, I think. It’s not like they are shooting citizens in the streets or disappearing people. They stepped in to prevent what they saw as two groups unwilling to compromise and a country teetering toward a civil war. A populace untrusting of a corrupted voting system makes it kind of hard to just hold another election. They tried that, remember?
Godwin’s Law applied in five, four, three…
Hit… No, it’s not going to be me.
OK, two things.
I’m open to the idea that the coup was necessary. In the beginning, I didn’t mind the Egyptian military removing Morsi, until they turned out to be just as bad, or maybe worse, than his government would have been.
However, the cheering about the crackdown on the press, and on social media, and applauding of arresting those who speak out against the junta and the coup (and wishing death upon them) is puzzling at best. As is snidely dismissing critical comments as ignorance.
I haven’t noticed anyone cheering at the loss of freedom of expression and the arrest of those that speak against the junta. Furthermore, as Sam hinted at, the lese mageste law has been as stringently used during the previous government as it is now, after all Thaksin has/had a friend in higher places that really needed it.
Going back to that character, Jakrapob, he has done a lot more than poopooing the junta and is in fact under an arrest warrant of being behind the supply of war weapons to the Red Shirts.
That may or may not be true, but Cambodia has been a safe haven for Red Shirts since at least 2010 and at least for one instance, the bombing of the Bhum Jai Thai Party by a group of Red Shirts, it is known for a fact that the planning was carried out in Cambodia.
After going back and looking at previous posts I retract what I said about posters praising the crackdown on the press and social media. Looks like I took one or two posts out of context.
I both agree and disagree with that. Basically I agree with Elendil’s Heir when he says democracy is the best form of government. However, it takes an informed electorate to work, and especially one not only willing but anxious to sell their vote to the highest bidder. I’ve lived upcountry before, and I know very well how village headmen just order their villages whom to vote for, and if the villagers do a good job and are lucky, the headman may share with them some of the money he was paid for ordering them.
And let’s not forget who tried to burn down Bangkok in 2010. Hint: It was NOT the yellow shirts. That was a hot time, I’ll clue ya (no pun intended).
As for the crackdown on media freedoms, this is pretty standard issue for any coup for any country that has one. Most Americans don’t really understand coups. At least in Thailand, no one, not even the most ardent red-shirt filth, thinks the junta will stay forever. Elections will return at some point. They returned too soon after the 2006 coup, as I’ve stated before. The junta at that time was too quick to placate the West and failed to put in place guarantees that the system could not be subverted yet again. I hope they take the time to do it right this time. Sadly, I have my doubts it even can be done.
At least the media freedoms, which have never been all that great here to begin with, will return, unlike in many other regional countries that haven’t even had a coup. And the restrictions in place now – again, just standard for any coup – are certainly less restrictive than those of that slimeball Thaksin. His routine strategy was to sue any reporter writing bad things about him for 1 billion baht. These were frivolous lawsuits, but he had the clout to keep them in the system and, being a dollar billionaire, their cost to him was peanuts. Meanwhile, the reporters went bankrupt becoming bogged down in a legal quagmire. I was personally acquainted with one reporter who was sued for exactly that amount, 1 billion baht (that really was standard), for doing nothing more than writing what any reporter would normally write. She carefully detailed how Thaksin’s family businesses had benefited from his policies as prime minister. I think her newspaper picked up her fees while this was going on, at least I hope so (the paper was also sued), but she was still bogged down in endless court appearances, and it did cost her some money personally. (They made a documentary about her in 2007, The Truth Be Told: The Cases Against Supinya Klangnarong. All such suits were, of course, thrown out in the wake of the 2006 coup.
Actually, parliamentary democracy was adopted in 1932, after the coup that overthrew the absolute monarchy and before the war. But again, it was hardly out of altruism. Many of the coup plotters believed the military, on the rise from the turn of the century, was the natural choice to lead the country. Others just wanted the goodies they saw the Western nations having, and they wanted some for themselves too. The late Prof David Wyatt of Cornell University gives a good overview of the motivations behind the 1932 coup in his Thailand: A Short History. But no one was very concerned about the will of the people.
Correcting myself, the 1932 overthrow is always termed the revolution of 1932 since it overthrew the absolute monarchy. All the overthrows since then are styled coups.
I know foreign press coverage of Thailand’s situation is extremely distorted. But this comment is bizarrely confused. It’s not just foreigners who support the military. A large portion of well-informed good-spirited people in rural areas do also, even in some rural areas that vote for Red-shirt allied politicians. The biggest support for Thaksin comes from those in the criminal food-chain.
An election held today would probably restore Thaksin and his fellow criminals to power. Even his supporters admit that he is extremely corrupt. The whole purpose of delaying elections is to hope for political reform to dilute the electoral advantages (e.g. vote buying) enjoyed by criminals.
The idea that “we need to see those purple fingers ASAP” shows a comic book-level understanding, a refusal even to click a link and try to grasp the situation.
AFAICT, the Army is sincere; they are invigorated by the support of country’s wise men (e.g. His Majesty) and are not simply seeking personal power.
Recently we had a very interesting situation near us, though it didn’t make its way into English-language press. A prominent leader was murdered under suspicious circumstances. If business were as usual, money would have changed hands and no arrests would have been made, or a hired gun would be arrested but without the hirer. Instead the Army took charge, coordinated investigation with local police, and significant arrests were made.
Dude - I’m from the Middle East. I know quite a lot about corruption, military coups and the pitfalls of the election process. After all, the people launching rockets at me right now were elected by their public after the massively misguided urging of the United States. So believe me, I get it.
I’m not saying that the Thai military coup isn’t popular and supported by the general public. I’m not saying that Thai democracy, such at it is, isn’t nearly irrevocably broken, and that the coup wasn’t the exact thing the country needs. All I’m saying is that I don’t think it should be permanent. Should the junta still be in power a year from now? Probably. Should it still be in power 20 years from now? I’m not sure.
Not in the US. There is no coverage in the US (to speak of). I would venture that 95% of Americans, if asked about the situation in Thailand, would say, “You mean that tidal wave thingy?” (bearing in mind, of course, that 87.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot). This administration is not appealing for popular support over a country no one can even find on a map. So, really, it is kind of hard to imagine that it should be a concern for anyone not a corporate executive with interests in Thailand.
You’re the first person I’ve encountered who even suggests that’s a possibility.
Really?
Yes, really. That’s what is known as “wishful thinking,” not a “real possibility.” Please learn the difference.
Be careful what you wish for.
Whatever you say, sport.