So now we’re supposed to look at every voter’s intentions? Oh, that’s right, not every voters; just Gore-voters in one county in one state.
As I said before and all Gore supporters ignored: this county and this state have taken on more significance than voters everywhere else in the nation … why? Because it’s close? So what!
What legal authority does the state of Florida have to a few thousands voters that didn’t follow directions like a few hundred thousand other voters were able to?
Think about what we’ve been debating. A re-vote in Palm Beach County. That could only help Gore and only Gore’s camp wants it.
Use your head, man. If Gore won the recount, no re-vote of the disputed county would be required.
Somebody remind me again just how Gore is being dishonorable/unsporting/whiny?
Florida has not yet been decided. The recount was mandated by law, not requested by the Gore camp. Why the hell should Gore concede the election at this stage?
FWIW, I voted for Bush. But these absurd attacks on Gore for…something…are beginning to grate on me.
The purpose of sending the ballots out ahead of time - as was done in West Palm Beach - is to give all affected parties a chance to complain about any unfairness they see.
Since no one did so before the election, they may not be heard to complain now. The people of West Palm Beach must live with the voided ballots, or the mistaken votes for Pat Buchanan.
However, Gore is absolutely right to not concede now. This is far too important an issue to let drop before all the votes are counted. The purpose of a recount in close races is to ensure that no significant errors have been made. Until the numbers - to include absentee ballots - are in, neither candidate should concede anything.
However, once the numbers are in, the losing candidate should bow out, and pledge to support the winning candidate over the next four years.
They have already announced that they will not respect the recount. They are filing suit to try and get the 19,000 double punched votes included.
He couldn’t follow the rules while fundraising, he couldn’t follow the rules in the debate…
Why should we expect him to follow the rules in the election?
Freedom2, what’s your beef about the popular vote margin? You’ve posted four times on it already. And you claim Gore is only leading by 100,000 on the PV nationwide, whereas the actual margin is 250,000. Are the overseas votes going to affect this much–especially when only about 2,000 are going to be counted in Florida?
By comparison, Kennedy won the PV by less than 100,000.
Duke
Remember Tuesday?
Remember when they called Florida for Gore. Then they said it was to close to call. Then it was called for Bush. Now it is in Re-Count.
Remember all that?
The confusion came from calling the race before the votes were counted. If there is anyone around here who knows the danger of pre-maturely calling the race, it is ME.
By my count the difference is down to around 100,000. By my count there might be as many as 2,000,000 uncounted ballots out there. Making claims that more people voted for Gore than Bush is not an established fact at this time.
That is my beef.
That ballot was illegal. We follow the rule of LAW in the country. It does not matter that nobody complained about it beforehand- if you are robbed, and only file a burglary report after your insurance company says you have to- there is still a crime, and the burglar can still be arrested & convicted.
These folks are NOT stupid- and anyone who is claiming that they are- is agist and unrespectful of their elders. They have vision problems. We do not call those who are less-abled “stupid”.
Even freaken “adolf” Buchanan admits that those ballots were unfair “and I am not entitled to that many votes”.
Thus, if Gore does not win the recount, we must allow those who voted in that county- to vote again. They will decide the presidency. Yes, i am sure that elsewhere there were other equally unclear ballots- but they do not matter in the large scheme of things, these do. But the other areas- i am sure that this won’t happen again.
Wouldn’t you think that if 14000 votes were spoiled in 1996 they would have made an effort to correct the problem or teach the voters how to vote.
Well…
It is a democrat run area…
Fair enough–except for the fact that the latest polls show Gore ahead by 221,005 (49,070,033 to 48,849,028 to be completely precise).
Where are you getting this 100,000 figure from?
Hmmmm…
Doesn’t that post violate the terms of your bet with Daniel?
No bitching about Gore, remember? 
My ex had terrible trouble following lines, arrows, and what not because of astigmatism. I suspect my ex would have had trouble with this ballot – and I can certainly see someone with poor vision being understandably confused.
A law firm in Palm Beach has collected several hundred names of people who believe they may have voted for Buchanan when intending to vote for Gore. When you combine that with the statistical evidence that gives the result as “highly improbable”, the only reasonable thing to do is a new election. Any other solution will put whichever candidate wins under such an insurmountable cloud as to totally destroy the legitimacy of his claim to victory.
Spoke
You are correct. I hereby retract this part:
The rest of the post is fact, and not bitching.
Freedom 2
I must say that I am surprised at your comment
"Well…
It is a democrat run area…"
I’m sorry I believe that it is to EVERYONES benefit that everyones vote count.You don’t think so??? Weather they are republician or democratic or libertarian or independent someone should have noticed the problem.
IANAL, but it looks to me that Palm Beach County uses an electromechanical voting system (ballot cards, “used in connection with a marking device for the piercing of ballots by the voter”) and is thus bound by the requirements in 101.5609, rather than the paper balloting requirements of 101.011 and 101.151, which requires electors to “place an ‘X’ mark after the name of the candidate of his or her choice for each office to be filled.”
???
My comment wasn’t that this didn’t matter, just that this problem had not been corrected. They knoew in '96 that there were 15,000 or so voters who were disqualified in this county. The democrats were in charge, therefore it was their responsibility to fix the problem.
They want to run the whole friggin country, expand the federal gov’t to new hights, and yet they can’t even manage to run an election in PalmBeach. This is why most conservative Americans prefer to make their own decisions, instead of letting the democrats make them for them.
On CNN this evening Judy Woodruff had a report from an analyst who stated: A- the margin was down to about 100,000 now (I don’t know his source however) and B- the final certified total votes in '96 were several million more than the numbers being reported at a comparable stage in the process that year. Thus, it may be premature to assert Gore is the PV winner.
the only thing that is being decided now is the popular vote. the election will not be final until after the electorial college meets in december. the electorial voter could decide to be independent and vote conscience rather than party line.
Freedom2
Do you realize your first paragraph says the democrats are in charge so it is their problem and your second paragraph you said … prefer to make their own decisions instead of letting the democrats make them for them.
Freedom2 said
My comment wasn’t that this didn’t matter, just that this problem had not been corrected. They knoew in '96 that there were 15,000 or so voters who were disqualified in this county. The democrats were in charge, therefore it was their responsibility to fix the problem.
They want to run the whole friggin country, expand the federal gov’t to new hights, and yet they can’t even manage to run an election in PalmBeach. This is why most conservative Americans prefer to make their own decisions, instead of letting the democrats make them for them. "
amazing.
What I’m saying is that someone should have fixed the problem.How about an American.