I agree. There’ve been a few statement of (a) in this thread that gave me the impression of being a denial of (b). I was also looking for other ways in which (a) can be caused, aside from (b).
Further, there are cases where someone may want to give a good impression to another person in a purely instrumental (non-emotional) way:
You’re a lawyer if my memory serves. When you and I meet a client or a judge, we wish to give a good impression of ourselves and likely modify the way we dress. Not because we feel an emotional longing to be admired by the judge/client but because giving them a good impression increases the odds that we will achieved our ends (convincing the judge of an ambiguous point, getting the client). If you know that a judge in an important case/important client really hates red ties and really likes blue ties, might you not avoid red ties and wear a blue one? I would because I am more likely to achieve my ends that way. However, if the judge/client were to lose their position, I wouldn’t care what impression I give them. So, am I dressing for the judge/client or for myself?
The distinction between dressing for oneself and dressing for others needs to be refined.
This isn’t as difficult as you’re making it out to be.
Dogzilla most likely is dressing for a date in a way that makes her happy and isn’t spending time trying to guess or anticipate what her date might like. However, once there, if her date - who she happens to like and is attracted to - specifically says “that’s totally hot, and I really like it”, she can file it away for future reference. Another date with the same man, and she doesn’t have to guess, she knows. So long as it fits into the parameters of what she enjoys and finds acceptable, there’s no reason not to indulge the man she’s interested in.
But the indulgence comes second to pleasing herself, as well it should.
I don’t understand this thread. I never understand this kind of stuff.
I painted my nails the other day. Toes and fingers. I know it looks nice on me; I have long slender fingers and attractive feet. Plus I love the act of painting my nails; it brings me back to a happier time. I don’t paint them because I think “Men are going to look at me!” I paint them because I look at them and I am pleased. Hell, that’s why I got a tattoo!
I put my hair up when I go to a fancy event because I leave my hair down every time or at the most put it in little clips. When I go to a fancy event, I have a reason to spend a little money/time and do something different. Guys seem to have a set uniform - tux, comb hair and clean up, etc. Maybe women just like more variety but if you’re telling me that no guy ever in the history of time wished for some more variety in their appearance I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
I also wear my hair up because as polar bear says, my long and slim neck is more apparent and it makes me look more vulnerable. I like the look, so I do it.
And that’s really all there is to do it. I like the look, so I do it. That doesn’t mean I don’t dress with some idea in my head of what people like. I don’t wear my underpants on my head, for example, and I’m careful not to wear clothes that will give me muffin tops or unattractive bulges. However, in general, I dress the way I like. If I wear high heels, it’s because I like them. Granted, I never wear more than 2" heels.
I love my SO and if he really likes something, I try to do it for him. But that doesn’t mean I won’t wear something he doesn’t like if I love it. Then again, he’s got far better taste than me anyway.
I’ve had long hair most of my life. In high school, I resembled Cousin Itt, scuttling about the halls. For the junior prom, I had my tresses teased and piled on top of my head in a massive Dairy Queen curl-sculpture that took two hours to comb out later! It was awesome, and I looked and felt like Cinderella off to the ball instead of same ol’ Sali with her hair flapping around. No one complained, I (and some other school friends) wanted to look special for a special evening, not just sexxy to the boys!
Seems to me that we’ve all seen married/coupled up women who’ve done one or more of these apparently terrible things to themselves.
I suppose the key is that if a woman does X to yourself or wears Y, some men will like it and some will not. Some will think she looks sexier with these extra things and some will think she looks far worse with them.
Which is good. If all men liked the very same thing, either every man in the world would be after me. Or no one would.
And both those situations would be extraordinarily tedious.
Then it’s false to say she doesn’t give a damn. If she didn’t give a damn, his preference would have no effect on the way she looks.
It also leaves the question of why the way of dressing that makes her happy makes her happy. I don’t doubt that for some people, it’s purely self-referential.
Also, you draw a distinction between dressing in a way that you guess or anticipate your date might like and dressing in a way that you know your date will like. Is the latter supposed to be more independent-minded or constitute dressing for others to a lesser degree?
Okay, MichaelEMouse, you’re on to me. Sometimes I put on a little makeup, check my butt in the mirror, lace up some strappy sandles, and brush my hair just so in order to get favorable attention from a man. But there’s a catch. When I’m attached, I like it when my guy appreciates my look, but I don’t care one whit what strange men think of me. And when I’m single, I only want attention from the type of man I find appealing, and I don’t want the others to make me uncomfortable with lenghty appraisals. So if I find you appealing, take a good long look. If I don’t, find someone else to look at. Oh, and even when I have no interest in interacting with the public at all or heading to the fabric or grocery store where most of the customers are female, I still shower, brush my hair, pick out clothes that flatter me. I’m not trying to pick up women, or gain their approval; I just feel more comfortable and happy when I feel as though I look my best.
That’s a great answer. It makes good distinctions and avoid simplisticly dividing the issue into either dressing for others or dressing for oneself. It also doesn’t sound at all hipster-y.
I’m really surprised to find out that men even notice most of this stuff. I had no idea that any of them were paying attention to what my nails look like or how high my shoes might be. Fascinating.
Totally (and deliberately) misses the crux, though. How does the average stranger know if my general appearance was crafted in order to appeal to him/her or not? He can’t. And the onus isn’t on me to give him any further cues.
The average stranger doesn’t know if your general appearance was crafted in order to appeal to him/her and the onus isn’t on you to give him/her any further cues.
I’m rereading your post and I don’t see how that was supposed to be the crux of it. I read it as you describing the motivations you have for the way you dress. You never mentioned anything about strangers knowing if your appearance was crafted to appeal to them or the onus being on anyone so I didn’t deliberately miss the crux, I failed to read your mind across the Internet.
I think the fault is mine. I assumed your curiosity about the motivations of women was how to determine when certain “fixing up” activities are done with men in mind, and how to determine which women are fishing for attention. My apologies for misunderstanding your line of questioning.
I once read women are all about the details (“Turquoise Pond or Blue Lagoon nail polish?”) and men just take in the total picture (“blue nails! Cool!”)
For me at any rate: simple colors mean I don’t get confused as easily. So yeah, primary colors are comforting. And white…dear god a simple white blouse (even an opaque one :)) is just smokin.
Just never never never ask a guy what precise color any of it is. It’s Blue, or Red or some other primary color, got it? We don’t fucking care what the exact shade is, and calling a guy out on it, even in jest, is just being a jerk.
Take this guy. Now, in my experience as a woman and knowing many women in real life and in fantasyland, many (if not most) women would not find this guy’s muscles attractive. Personally, I find them gross, and I imagine a good percentage of women would, too.
So why does he look like that? Well, presumably, because he wants to. He thinks he looks good like that, he’s worked hard to look like that, and it makes him feel good to know he looks like that. Not to mention he’s made himself very strong. If he happens to attract a small set of the population of women, it’s a good thing, but that’s probably not why he does it.
Men know primary colors, that’s true, they don’t know permutations of colors. Seafoam? Green! Plum? Purple! Scarlet/crimson/vermillion? Red! When Mr. Sali is ordering clothes online, I’m always asked, what does stone, slate, or sage mean?
