- 1 billion.
I simply don’t buy the “I do this for myself” line. Women do things that women are supposed to do to look like certain kinds of women, and certain kinds of feminine, in certain places. That you think it’s a matter of doing it for yourself is silly and a bit obnoxious. You do it because you’re supposed to and it has been manufactured specifically to make you feel and look a certain way.
Anyway, I really don’t care what women do. Any extra effort on their appearance just makes me think they’re a try-hard and I’ll probably consider them annoying if not worse than that. High-heels seem uncomfortable and they’re definitely stupid shoes. I can’t see any reason in the world to think they’re cool other than that you’re supposed to, but hey you go right ahead and wear them if you like. Elongating your eyelashes, painting your face, painting your nails, doing weird shit to your hair–all stupid, at least to a person who feels no need to do anything other than ensure that he’s clean. Perfume makes me want to vomit, as does cologne, and so on and so on. Women tend to be so insecure and attached to their appearance, and men so interested in that bullshit and such criminals of perpetuating it, that I really can’t be bothered to care anymore. At least not to care beyond saying, now, how little I like it and how silly it really is and how uninterested I am in comments that like to stress “Well hey if you don’t like it, great–we won’t be fucking any time soon!!” as though that’s a real answer or insulting or cool or something like that.
Here’s the thing: I know that if I want to bag myself the most men possible, I’m going to wear heavy but natural makeup (which was previously explained-- most guys think they like women with no makeup but in reality, most guys appear to like women wearing natural colored makeup that accentuates their features), put my hair in loose, natural curls, and wear something cute but not overly trendy or complicated looking. If I dress myself up like that, I will have 10 x as many guys hitting on me than otherwise.
But see, I don’t always want that. Sometimes, I want to wear heavy eye makeup or bright/ dark lipstick. Sometimes I want my hair to be teased really high and big and fun. Sometimes I want to toddle around in my 5 inch heels that are neon and ridiculous. I’m well aware that in general, guys will be less attracted to me because I am done up that way, but I don’t care because I think it’s fun. Ya dig?
Men and women alike tend to focus on physical features as separate things rather than as a whole.
I have met quite a few girls that were displeased with the size and shape of their nose, and planned to have work done on it, when the nose they had looked just fine. If you looked at their nose as a separate piece of their anatomy, sure, it looked a bit big, a bit crooked, maybe had a little bump in it that could be seen in profile - but on them, it looked good. It fit the rest of their face and features. It was part of what made them look attractive and somewhat different from all the generic faces out their.
Just because some model or celebrity has a certain feature that looks so very good on them, doesn’t mean it will look good on another face or body. In fact, there are quite a few women celebrities out there that are known for their hot looks, but if you focus on individual parts, you find that they are not perfect at all. Far from it. But overall, as a whole, it all comes together in a pleasing package.
I hate the generic blonde look. Watching the Amazing Race the other night, I commented to a friend that they should put floating name tags on all the blonde women contestants so we could tell them apart. They all looked and dressed so much alike, that it was hard to tell them apart. They all looked pretty good, but none of them really stood out and you could easily swap one for another in a sequence and no one would notice.
Listen, I get that women (and men) exercise personal stylistic choices. I, for example, don’t wear dresses or women’s clothing generally (partially because they’re made for a body I don’t have, but partially because I’m not “supposed” to). So to the extent that you sometimes want, or don’t want, to do things for whatever reasons–I get it and I get it. The point is that you’re meant to think that make-up does certain things and as a woman you’re meant to want to wear it. At least it’s taught, one way or another, that it’s an option that you have to effect the way you appear to yourself or to others–both of which are manufactured ideas. The reality is that you look perfectly normal without face paint and people were taught for a long time to think otherwise. That you live in a place that teaches it’s normal to feel attracted to a woman with paint or chemicals on her face doesn’t mean that it actually is normal in any way. Again, in my mind people look normal and are normal, and perfectly fine, when they smell like they smell or look how they look. I’m well aware of what we’re taught to think in that regard. For the same reason a man would think wearing make-up isn’t fun, you would think it is. I think it’s silly that women should do it for any reason, including the fact that over time they’ve considered it fun or think it makes them look “better” (than what?? Women don’t actually look sick or “worse” or otherwise if they aren’t wearing make-up).
As for attracting men, I don’t really have a comment. That strikes me as a really weird thing to want to do, regardless if lots of people think it’s perfectly normal.
I remember my father ranting about modern female makeup and fashions sometime in the late 60s or early 70s. He was complaining about the long, straight hair that so many of us were wearing back then, saying that it was hard to tell from the back whether the owner of a mane of long straight hair was male or female. Back in HIS day, women took care to have their hair permed and styled in order to look like girls. But they only looked like girls/women to him because he’d been taught to expect that females would curl and style their hair. Oddly enough, he was raised to believe that women who wore makeup were fast, loose women…and when he took my mother to meet his family, he told her to avoid wearing even her habitual eyebrow pencil. My mother has always had rather thin and very faint eyebrows.
You’re saying this to a woman who is literally wearing zero makeup today— and most days, for that matter. So, while I appreciate the condescending lecture, never once have I believed that I look abnormal without makeup.
I understand that you don’t “get it,” but just because a person finds different useless things fun than you do doesn’t mean they are wrong. Some people paint on a canvas in their spare time, some of us paint faces. Some people sculpt clay, others sculpt hair. Just because I prefer the latter in each of those situations doesn’t mean that I’m suddenly an empty shell of a girl who is brainwashed by society and unable to think for myself. How utterly condescending.
Good gravy. Many of you in this thread are accusing women of being shallow for doing all of the grievances laid out here— in reality, the shallow side here is pretty darn clear in my opinion.
I have to agree with this in general. Until my wife got married in an ecru gown, I never heard of ecru.
On the other hand, women are totally immersed in a world of gradations of color – mauve, persimmon, sea foam green, periwinkle, cornflower – that apply to lipstick and nail polish and fabric and which guys don’t encounter. We emember the colors from the Crayola set (“Burnt umber”) and, pretty often, car paint and model paint (“candy apple red”). Guys don’t paint either cars or plastic models colors like fuschia, so we’re hazy on what it is. (It’s Pink with Too Much Purple in it)
Oh spare me. I made myself very clear that there are things both men and women do, myself included, because we’re supposed to. It isn’t some massive brainwashing, it’s the careful manufacturing of what is and is not normal. I’m not saying that women who wear make-up are ugly, loose, simpleminded, or otherwise. I’m saying they’re weird to me and I’m bored with the idea that wearing make-up is actually some individual artistic or personal pursuit. It’s a thing you do because you’re a woman and you were taught to think it makes you look better. Nor am I saying that you personally think you look abnormal without it–but it’s been mentioned, and I’ve heard it enough times, that people often do regard women without make-up as looking worse, or strange, or less attractive–whatever that means–or whatever else. That’s what I’m referencing and I think that was pretty clear.
I personally respect people who don’t feel the need to waste the money or time trying to convince themselves or others that these products make them look better. I also respect people who tend to think that “feeling” a certain way because they’re wearing make-up is weird. In your case, I couldn’t possibly care any less about what you think it does or means for you. If you buy into it to that degree and if it makes you feel a certain way, all the power to you. I think you’re weird but I am in a vast minority, not to mention I don’t know you and won’t know you and we probably wouldn’t find ourselves speaking to each other in any event.
And what about all the male makeup artists and makeup wearers out there? Are they secretly transgendered or something?
I don’t know what you mean? Men obviously think it makes women look better too. You pointed out, I think, or other women did here anyway (or men?), that “natural looking” make up, or stuff men “can’t notice” (which doesn’t make sense to me) is the kind of make up that is most attractive–or whatever. Anyway, in any event I wasn’t trying to suggest that it’s a gender-thing, beyond the fact that it’s considered normal for women to wear it casually to appear more attractive (or whatever else it makes them feel, yadda yadda).
Again, you are thinking from this from the perspective of “If a girl has exceptional top 10% bone structure, yeah sure, I want to see her face. But otherwise I’d rather have the long hair.”
From a woman’s own perspective, she is almost always going to fine her face more captivating and beautiful than something that is essentially a symbolic sex-fetish for men. I have long hair, primarily because it’s attractive to men, and I think it’s gross. It’s dead flesh strands, and when I wear it down I feel like I’m wearing a hoodie.
Also, remember that women are not comparing themselves to Audrey Hepburn every day (if we did, the feminine experience would be one of overwhelming despair.) People look in the mirror today to compare themselves with how they looked yesterday. From the woman’s own perspective, she may feel she looks better when her face is more visible.
Why do you feel so strongly about this? Do you think wearing high heels and makeup is harmful to society? Do you have a problem with rituals other cultures do to change or enhance appearance? Do you shave or get your hair cut?
I don’t feel like I feel very strongly about this. It’s a topic online and I responded honestly to it. I don’t look at women and men when I go out and scream hatred to the universe for any injustice. I ignore it unless there’s a reason to talk about it.
Harmful? I mean, I don’t know how you mean when you say that. It doesn’t mean the downfall of society but I do think it’s a part of the thing that makes women body-conscious and loosely related to eating disorders and things of that nature. Which is to say, people concerned with how they look to themselves and others rather than simply trying to lead a healthy and natural life (as much as possible, anyway). I’m not very sympathetic to culture, so maybe that answers your question?
I have long hair because I, personally, am REALLY into having long hair - I only wish I had the kind of hair I could easily grow down past my butt. I almost always wear it up in public, to protect it and to avoid attention. I love looking at other people’s long hair.
I grow out, file, and paint my nails because I, personally, really like having a nice manicure. I get a rather ridiculous amount of pleasure from sitting at home alone and admiring my freshly painted, shiny nails on the days that I do them. Other people don’t usually comment on them, and I usually use weird colors that some men take it upon themselves to tell me are ‘gross’. My ex hated long, painted nails - I did it anyway. Because I fucking felt like it. I love looking at what other women do with their nails. My best friend and I spend hours painting each others.
I wear stereotypically femme clothes (lots of skirts and dresses, girly shoes, many with a heel) because I am highly interested in fashion and I love the way they look. I wear skirts and dresses when I am at home alone cleaning up dog shit, since as well as being fun to look at, they are more comfortable than pants IMO. I could spend all day observing what other women wear (men too, if they are well-dressed, which almost none are).
Etc etc etc. It’s really all about me, I don’t care about what you think. I will allow some mild influence from the man I am having sex with, that’s about it. I don’t know why this is such a hard concept for some to grasp.
Apparently, it’s totally mindblowing for some men to realize that women make choices based on things other than “will this make men as a category more likely to fuck me?” The same incredulity popped up in that thread regarding women’s reasons for having breast reductions.
Troppus,
No biggie. Misunderstandings easily occur in text-only communication.
Since this seems a reply to my question, is this aimed at me? I do not doubt that it’s possible to dress partly/mainly/only for oneself and in your case, it does seem to be mainly so and in some cases, only. The fact that you wear much the same clothes when no one is around strongly suggests that.
The perfect one for getting your salad tossed!
I know this is waaay off topic, but why isn’t this universal truth more apparent to most people?
Vocal inflection, tone, hand gestures, and body language (amongst other things) are essential in determining the true meaning of what one is trying to convey. Declarative sentences tend to sound unintentionally harsh, and questions can be seen to have undertones that aren’t intended.
I just found it refreshing for someone else to say it I guess.
The people who are saying “I do it for me”, are simply not reading the title of the OP at all. This isn’t a thread about primping for your own sake, it’s one about failures in trying to attract a man. RTFOP.
The problem being that more than a handful of posters have come into this thread and declared that there is no such thing as a woman who does these things for herself, instead, we are all always trying to attract men in all we do.