CrazyCatLady, thanks for helping me put this into perspective. The Pit is somewhat lenient on posting opinions without ruminating and I was still a little hot. Your words made me think about it from a different angle (though still the same thoughts) It was the kids that got to me in the scenario. I took it a little personally on their behalf. Off to get another beer and mellow some more. 
Do forgive me for the length of that horrendous thing. I swear the Cliff Notes will be coming out soon. Next thing you’ll know, I’ll need to be pitted for being so damn overly verbose.
(And I even previewed. Shit.)
Are you new to our lovely Pit? You must be if you apologize for a lengthy post.
Though you did include “shit”, so ya done good! 
No, it’s not your job to maintain their wedding vows. Yes, it’s wrong to date bad people. But also it’s wrong to help bad people break their wedding vows (when the breaking of the vows hurt the spouse or family). If you know you are helping them hurt their spouse and/or family and go ahead and help them break their wedding vows (because it’s “not your problem,” or “they’re going to do it anyway and I’m horny,” or whatever) then that’s a pretty shitty and selfish thing to do.
It doesn’t make you responsible for their choices, but it does make you responsible for helping someone else do something shitty. And that isn’t a good or even morally neutral thing to do.
I am not concieted (or I would not consider myself to be) but there is exactly one thing about me that I wish everyone would follow: believing jealousy is waste of time. I am very unmoved by the thought of my significant other wanting to have sex or a relationship outside of our own. In my opinion it is just human nature; trying to survive in any way possible and all that. I feel that if I personally was not offering my partner enough sexual stimulation (which would be very easy) or if they just wanted adventure then it would be perfectly fine to go else where. I would perfer them to be honest but whatever.
Anyways, I am in no way condoning affairs. Sure, what works for me works for me, but I realize that for some reason people have “emotions” and stuff. Just wanting to inerject another side to the matter and all that.
I think I better catch up on the few more replies I missed before I get overwhelmed again… Once more, in order (I hope).
[ol]
[li]I think Tripler and Dangerosa worked out where each other stood, so I’ll leave that alone. Hope both are good to go.[/li][li]Phlospher: Sure that’s what they all say after they’ve fed us to the lions. Don’t worry, I’m sure we’ll get to talk more about this and hopefully, I’ll learn what I didn’t the first time around.[/li][li]Again, I see Giraffe’s point… bad people make for bad other things as well. I should have known from his willingness to jump right in, no matter how he phrased it. Or poorly ::: ack! ::: his miserable life was. I needed to have been smarter than that. Yet I failed miserably.[/li][li]duffer once more! Believe it or not, I appreciate the righteous indignation on behalf of his children. If I could have seen through the lies to reality, I would have too. Unfortunately, I believed every word out of his mouth and would’ve gladly nominated him for saint-in-training. There is a reason that fool is part of my username.[/li][li]And no, I’ve built my own thread in the Pit a time or two, but at outside sources and I’ve NEVER been the reason behind one. I’m not necessarily shocked, but it does make me feel more ashamed of myself on top of everything else already. You won’t get on to me if I apologize for that too? :p[/li][li]yosemite: Is straight on. You definitely shouldn’t enable anyone to be an ass or hurt other people who are no more than innocent bystanders. I know I’ve said I hadn’t thought this was what I was doing (and certainly not just because I “was horny” or that I might as well take the spot of whoever would be there instead) and in my warped-mind, I even believed I was helping, as idiotic as that appears to me now. (See lots of comments about wanting his kids to have a normal life/good [ha!] role models and on and on.) Perhaps instead of just another psych hospital visit and extensive therapy, I should consider the suggestions of a lengthy committal after all. I don’t think that would be too far out of the realm of what might be necessary. 'Cause I’m way not good for myself, and obviously, others.[/li][li]And thank you for that opinion ZebraShaSha. I’ve never been remotely jealous in my life either, until him and then all of a sudden I felt claims on someone who wasn’t mine to start with. He often said that “if you aren’t taking care of business at home, you shouldn’t be upset when it’s found elsewhere” and although I didn’t subscribe to his theory, I understand. I repeat though, I’d have preferred everything be completely and totally honest up front and he left as soon as he “knew”. But, stupidly, I bought his reasoning for the delay and allowed myself to go down a very wrong path. I’m so sorry for the pain I’ve undoubtedly caused his family, regardless of whether I was convinced I was doing the right thing (ultimately) or not.[/li][/ol]
Yay! Shorter this time. Thankfully. I’m sure everyone involved is breathing a huge sigh of relief.
If you no longer believe that you were “helping” this guy, if you understand that helping someone else do something crappy is not a good thing to do, and if you are determined to never do anything like this again, then I see no need to belabor the point. I have no desire to beat you up over it.
All I’m saying to those who think that it’s morally neutral or not that big of a deal to have an affair with a married person (because, after all, they’re not married, so they haven’t broken any vows and aren’t responsible for how the married person is betraying his or her spouse), well, I think that is a mistaken and wrong view. If you help someone do something crappy to someone else, especially when you’re getting something out of it (sex, attention, a nice apartment, affection, whatever), then you are benefitting from someone else’s betrayal and pain. How is that not a bad and morally wrong thing to do?
And I’ll repeat–I’m not ragging on you specifically, faithfool. No desire to rag on you over this issue, as long as you own up to your mistakes, etc.
Amen to that. But for some reason, a lot of people think that the third party is the one who should receive the most blame.
Not that cheating on one’s spouse is something which rank high on my moral radar. I don’t care that much about that. But the person who made the promise (regardless of the kind of promise) is certainly the one responsible for breaking it. If s/he has no issue with it, why should the lover feel more concerned?
But I assume you know pretty well that most people marrying now don’t take marriage vows as seriously as you. It’s rather “till divorce, or bad sex, or change or mood or another attractive man/woman coming my way spare us”.
Nothing bad with that, by the way. Being married with someone you have a long commitment with, and possibly children is very important from a legal point of view. Thinking that you should get married, for various reasons, doesn’t mean that you’re willing to make eternal promises. These promises are nevertheless traditionnally exchanged, but for a lot of people they’re just words. Or self-delusion. A married couple isn’t necessarily any more stable than a non-married couple. And the number of people who are stopped by a promise made 10 or 15 years ago is dwindling. A lot of other factors are likely to come into play, and the vows will come well down the list in most cases.
And by the way, most divorced are believers too. So, vows made to their god doesn’t seem to rank that high, either.
Agree with that too. If someone falls in love with you and you say “that OK with me”, then you’re fully responsible. This person never vowed to make sure that your spouse won’t be cheated upon. It’s not his/her responsability to repress his/her feelings and make herself (and assumedly you) miserable for the exclusive benefit of a stranger to whom s/he has never promised anything.
This responsability rests only on the shoulders of the commited (not necessarily married, by the way) person. Hopefully, s/he will be sincere with both his/her spouse and lover.
You had me to this point, waiting with bated breath ready to yell “pull” and let the skeet fly . . . but then you threw these next few statements in there:
And that’s exactly my problem–people aren’t standing by their sworn words. They are self-deluded to think that they don’t need to abide by their binding words. Long story short, I’ve got serious difficulty with this.
I’m not getting religious about this, period. I’m simply being very matter-of-fact. If you’re married and having an affair, you’re definitely fucking something up. And it ain’t that something between the sheets. . .
Tripler
::sticking to his guns::
Somethings some of you are nt understanding about marriage. Specifically directed to those who think…"well people change, people cheat, people find others attractive, sometimes the sex isn’t good sometimes he grow s pimple on his ass, he farts too much - I’m sure the cute receptionist at work doesn’t fart that much…Whatever!
When people get married they do so under a set directive of pretenses. These pretenses are what most divorced couples do not have before they are married.
The period before we get married is so crucial to the lasting of a good marriage. Living with the other person, making love with the other person, understanding how they manage money, agreeing to disagree about politics or anything else the other may differ on. Loving the little things…Being open and talking about the future, making sure that the relationship is malleable, meaning able to evolve with one another, and bend on certain things. Take out the rigidity.
And above all, making sure each partner agrees to never harbor resentment towards the other. This does not mean one can not get mad, of course not, it only means that there is no feelings left undealt with.
This is a major problem with our society today, people are getting married for the marriage day…to dress up in little costumes and be all caught up in being the centre of attention…They fall in love and decide automatically, thats the person I want to spend the rest of my life with.
People are getting married without living together first, or staying together so they don’t go to hell for getting a divorce…both terrible ingredients to hopeful and already existing marriages. I agree with much of what Tripler says, however, he would need to be with someone who shared those same views for a lasting marriage to work…But I’m sure he knows that…and I’m sure he’s picked the right woman.
That’s exactly the point I’m making. The OP and her ex-lover were both in dead relationships. Phlosphr, I need you to tell me something: What difference does it make to young children (or old ones, for that matter) if their parents are divorced or not? I’ll bet you can ask any of the adult children of divorce here, and many (or most) of them will tell you that it hurt like hell when their parent found another partner, even if the divorce happened years before. Hurt is hurt. Pain is pain. We’re not talking about a seductress who went in and trashed a loving relationship. Both marriages were in the crapper. Now, the fact that her ex-lover is making an attempt at salvaging his marriage is PROBABLY due to the affair. In which case she’s done those kids a favor…at least by your logic.
Dude, you are so whipped! Unfortunately, what works for you doesn’t necessarily work for the next guy. For instance, “*The period before we get married is so crucial to the lasting of a good marriage. Living with the other person, making love with the other person, *”…there are plenty of people on these boards who think that this absolutely, positively should not happen. Under any circumstances. This is your marriage you’re talking about. You can’t impose your set of rules and regulations on everyone else. Life don’t work that way.
Many people grow apart from their spouse. Sure, it’s nice if you grow together, but some people just aren’t capable of it. What about mental illness? The OP in the cited thread has some serious issues to deal with. They’ve gotten progressively worse. She’s not the same person she was, and therefore they are not the same couple they were (incidently, either are you and Mrs. P). You don’t know how changing personalities and interests are going to interconnect. Why do you find it so odd that someone was drawn to someone who filled the gaps her husband couldn’t?
Kalhoun, can you read my mind or something? I don’t know if I’m just not getting my point across or that I can’t write coherently for shit, but I think I absolutely adore you for understanding.
And to further clarify, none of this happened because of the affair, on either end. Mine was due to my mental health problems and all that went with them, as can be seen here, if anyone’s that interested or curious. Of course, it’s long too, so be prepared -and- it’s a “Zombie Thread!” so please don’t anyone go reviving it lest I have one of our good mods whomp me upside the head.
Lastly, there was never anything, at all, about the reason my husband and I decided to split (which, as has been mentioned about a million times nows, should have been much sooner) that constituted trivial. We NEEDED to be apart, probably before we were ever together. We both loved each other (and still do) very much, took our time to make sure we (thought) were right for each other, overcame tons of obstacles and tried and tried and then tried some more. Unfortunately, all of what happened after I changed, was too much to bear. I don’t know if that’s understandable to others or not, but I certainly think giving it 8 years was not taking the easy way out. Did I handle it wrong? You bet. Have I taken responsibility? Yes and will until the day I die and then probably beyond. Am I remorseful? More than anyone will ever know. Will I ever repeat this behavior again? Not if I had a gun to my head and both Johnny Depp and Kevin Bacon nude and beckoning. I’ve screwed up badly, I’ve hurt many people, I’m trying to help others in any way I can not to follow my idiotic path and I’m sorry. I don’t know how much more I can cover.
As far as his marriage goes, I don’t think he’s trying to salvage it. I think he’s keeping up appearance long enough to find someone else to go another round. He’s done it before, and in the last phone conversation we’ll ever have, when he asked if we could get back together, he admitted as much. He says he’s serially non- and can’t help it. Right. If I’d gotten that on tape, I’d have mailed it to her, althomonogamousugh I’m sure he’d find a way to even turn that to his advantage. And if I just told her, she wouldn’t believe me and write me off as still in love with him. I believe she stays for the same reason my friend I previously mentioned does… the evil you know and all that.
Again, if I can further clarify, explain or let a dead horse lies, just say the word.
P.S. And I don’t know if this counts as an ‘irrational’ hatred to put in that other Pit thread, but am I the only one who gets all steamed when you take the time to respectfully and in detail respond to someone and they don’t even reply back? Definitely makes on feel invisible even when you are the subject of said conversation. Now I’m going back into the woodwork. Thanks to all who understood or tried and to everyone else for their constructive criticisms. Much more to think about than I already have on my plate. Gracious and I hope any of this does some good.
I understand what you are saying Kalhoun, culturally there are many ways people come into a marriage, and I do wish I had the time to pull a bunch of cites. I’ll have to use anecdotes instead for now.
I know several people in my immediate family who are following the RC law to the ‘T’ and are miserable. Essentially they married the first person they fell in love with etc…etc…They have been miserable their entire lives. They had no time to get to know each other, no time to create that ‘lasting bond’. That is what is fucking up their marriage. And both will tell you that. Both of their children are in counseling, because they are both reacting to unspoken stress in the family…that stress being their parents do not love each other. I could not think of a more terrible situation.
I know the same is true for many households in America and abroad today - And yes people do grow apart from one another. My point lay in that if you are going to get married, then get married to someone who you have absolutely no reservations with, someone who you can see and perceive will act and adapt in a similar fashion as you would. Someone who loves that aspect as much about you as with themselves. Is this so difficult to understand.
** → following is expressed by me and me alone and are in no way judgemental to any religion or individual(s)**
How horrid to marry someone you have reservations about. Or how terrible to get married having never made love with the person… What if you love making love and they hate it, however, you are bound a religious knot. What if you find your partner is a complete slob, or other such atrociousness you can not live with, yet now…your married.
Of course the above people can divorce…right? Ah but that is what we are talking about, avoiding divorce by working out the ‘living with each other arrangement’…And above all trying not to find solice in the arms of another. Is that so difficult to grasp?
And to answer your Q, I do not find it Odd that, “that someone was drawn to someone who filled the gaps her husband couldn’t”
I find it morral wrong, not odd. As mentioned above, she’s sorry for it, but do you see any atonement?
No one is asking you to clarify anything else Faith, we are talking about infidelity as a whole here, you simply supplied the catalytic vignette that spurred the topic. And are you referring to me, when saying, “and they don’t even relpy back?”
No sir, you weren’t who I had in mind at all. Just a general pet peeve that I see happen to lots of folks on this board and not specifically aimed from me to any of the participants of either thread.
However, this part I don’t understand…
Since you said so yourself, I am sorry. I’ve apologized to everyone involved. Told any others that didn’t know so that wouldn’t think I’m a good or decent person anymore. I’m moving away and doing whatever I can to make my husband’s life better immediately. I’ve changed my home number and made it unlisted. Closed my cell phone and email account. Refused any further contact with him AT ALL EVER. Am increasing my therapy and medications to try and help my many problems. And am in the process of also looking for group counseling and shared my sordid story here, hoping others could benefit from my failures.
How else can I atone? If there is, please tell me and I’ll enact that as well. Thank you.
Well, most people go into marriage thinking its forever, thinking they’re compatible in every way and that love will never die. Sometimes that’s not the case.
Atonement…one would have to believe that marriage is a god-given sacrament in order to atone. I don’t believe that and also don’t believe that divorce is a bad thing. It is a costly thing, it can be a painful thing, but it isn’t bad in and of itself. Avoiding divorce, as if it were something shameful, is an unfair burden to put on yourself or anyone else. I stand by my “shit happens” statement from the other thread. You cannot control changes in your spouse and sometimes even in yourself. I do not believe that marriage has to be forever to be good. And I certainly don’t think less of someone because they’ve divorced.
No one is asking you to clarify anything else Faith, we are talking about infidelity as a whole here, you simply supplied the catalytic vignette that spurred the topic. And are you referring to me, when saying, “and they don’t even relpy back?”
[/QUOTE]
Shoot. I meant to delete Phlosphr’s last paragraph to Faith. I had not comment to that. I’m such a :wally
I’d also like to add that I don’t believe that most people who cheat sit down and make a conscious decision to find someone else (except for guys like my ex, who’d fuck a snake if it would stand still long enough). When someone falls in love outside the marriage, they usually don’t even see it coming. It’s one of those things that can’t be helped. Yes, you can choose to NOT act on your emotions, but if your marriage is already dead, there’s little to keep you from following your heart.