Thinking of joining the military--opinions please

In My Humble Opinion
61

I’m retired Navy (17 year early retirement). I don’t regret the time I spent serving my country. I signed up in 1981 as a Cryptologic Technician (Maintenance) on the Delayed Entry Program while I was still a senior in school.

No, I didn’t go to sea. No, I didn’t go to war. I wasn’t in the right place at the right time for either.

I did however spend active duty time in Japan, San Diego, Jacksonville and Pensacola, Florida, Guam (twice), Massachusetts, Texas, Virginia, and a few other short stays. I also lived in England as a dependent after I retired.

The most incredible things about the military were meeting new people who I would never have had the opportunity to meet previously.

I saw places I wouldn’t have gotten to see from the backwoods of Alabama (where I’m from originally). I climbed Mt Fuji. Rode the trains in Japan, drove on the wrong side of the road.

I have stood completely flabbergasted staring at a sign written in Japanese trying to figure out what train to take only to be helped by a native who took the time to actually lead me to the right train platform.

The negatives? I was married to a sailor in a seagoing rate (Engineman). For 8 years straight he was assigned to a ship (actually 3 different ships in 3 different locations). I saw him for about 24 months out of the entire period. He was gone on 6 month deployments during both pregnancies.

The only thing I would add to all the great information I have seen here is to keep the lines of communications open between you and your fiancee/husband when he does join the military. Send letters, emails, cards, care packages. Let each other know you think about and miss each other.

The separation is hard but the overall rewards of being together and traveling, meeting new people and learning new things is worth every minute of hardship.

Good luck to you both.

62

Spit, a “knee-knocker” is a part of a ship’s construction. Ships are divided laterally into frames, so that every x number of feet while walking lengthwise down a ship, you pass a frame which transverses the entire ship. Some of those frames are built to keep water inside a certain area, so they’re raised a foot or so to keep water in. This helps a ship survive a hull breach or other flooding. So when you’re walking down a passageway, every now and then you come across one of these raised frames which you have to step over. If you don’t, you’ll whack your shin against it. (Disclaimer: I haven’t spent much time on ships, so this definition may be a bit off) From what I understand, the knee knockers on modern ships are much lower, around ankle-level.

Also, about your disgruntled question, I think it’s a large matter of retrospect. While I was in my last squadron, we’d bitch and moan all the time about the bs we had to deal with. Now that I’m in a different job and command, I look back and see the good outshine the bad by a wide margin. This is probably why the senior officers would look at us sideways and ignore us when we’d bitch to them.

As far as pet quarantines go, it’s all country-dependent. Some have quarantines, some don’t. Japan, for example, has a quarantine, but it’s an in-home quarantine (good). Hawaii, IIRC, has a 3-month controlled quarantine (bad). England has the worst quarantine condition-wise (I think it’s a whopping 6 months), and I’ve told my detailer that I never want to get stationed there as long as my dog’s alive.

63

I’m 23, I work at a job that I don’t really like…I should go to college, but I don’t have the motivation. So I ponder joining the military

Largely due to this thread getting rid of some fears that I had, I decide to seriously start looking into the service -more than I had previously- as an option.

I love weather, radio, and electronics. The AF seemed my best bet.
I called the recruiter today.

The first thing he asks me is what my credit rating looks like.

“We look at three things in the AF: Family, school, and financial responsibility. We are the only branch of service that checks credit ratings”

Well, my credit looks like $h!t due to a foreclosure on a home 2 years ago. (Long story about a fiancee who ran off with another man after 1 month of buying the home)

“Er…It’s so-so” I tell him.

Some more questions about school, height, weight, etc.

Then he gets to health. No problem there, I’m healthy as a horse.

“Have you ever been on any medication?”

Well, yes I have. Allergy medicines, and Wellbutrin for 6 months, 2 years ago. (The whole Fiancee thing)

“Uh…The Wellbutrin will be a problem.”

Well great. No AF for me, as I already have two strikes against.

I am somewhat discouraged.

So my question is this:

My next call will be to the navy. Apparently they don’t check credit, so that should be ok…What should I say about the Wellbutrin? Tell the truth, or lie like hell? Won’t they check my medical records? Is a mis-diagnosis of depression by an intern pyschologist going to ruin my chances of getting in?

I’m so pissed…And I have no one to blame but myself.

64

Sorry for this hijack, Fairblue.

Spit, if you’re concerned about the drug, you can always call a Navy recruiter anonymously and ask about it. Explain the circumstances… it may help.

I’d also recommend getting more info from the AF. They may treat the credit problem objectively based on credit score. If so, ask what their minimum credit score is, and then check your own credit to see if you pass. And ask more about the Wellbutrin thing. Find out on what basis it will dequalify you, then ask if that basis is waiverable. From what I understand, there’re a lot of things that are waiverable. The same goes for the Navy if they tell you it’ll be a problem. Heck, while you’re at it, find out from the AF if the credit thing is waiverable. Hopefully Tranquilis can offer some insight here. And if it’s any consolation, no one ever asked me for any medical records when I joined.

Out of curiosity, what leads you to believe you have more to gain from the AF than the Navy with your interests?

65

I am a US Army sniper stationed in Alaska right next to an air base. A couple things i can say is that it is not for everyone. The military lifestyle is difficult and only the strongest survive the training to advance. Although it can be rough in the beginning, i would say that it has the potential to be a very good life, its all about your attitude in the end. The benefits are awesome if you learn how to take advantage of them, and they will pay for off-post housing if you dont want to live on the base. The military housing, other than the barracks, is usually pretty nice from what i have seen.

66

My apologies too Fairblue.

Thanks for the advice. I’ll talk to the recruiter again, and see what more I can find out.

Either seemed like the way to go. I just didn’t relish the thought of finding out that 73% of the world is water, so I made the Navy my second choice.

67

No need to apologize, guys- that’s a legitimate hijack.

Spit, this is what the about.com site has to say about debts-

We have been told that’s the rule for Navy, too. Perhaps you could refinance your morgage to get a lower payment schedule.

The about.com website also has information about the medical restrictions, so check it out. Don’t give up hope yet. It may be a pain to rearrange some things but I think it would be worth it if that’s what you want to do.

And my sweetie prefers water to air- or as he said when his dad asked- “Why Navy instead of Air Force?” – “Cause I’d rather float than fall.” :wink:

68

Spit

Whether you go Navy or Air Force, do not lie, or leave anything from the recruiter, they will eventually find out anything you have not told them. Be upfront and honest, usually if the recruiter is good, they will also.

If you go into the Service, that is, Sign the Paperwork and take the Oath of Service, and you have gone in under fraudulent circumstances, for not disclosing something that is a Fraudulent Enlistment, they will kick you out and give either a Bad Conduct, or an Undesirable Discharge, not good, that ruins you forever.

So be Truthful, even if you think it’s not a big deal, it may be something that would be a big deal for the Service. The Recruiter (yes, they are trying to meet quota) would rather not be able to take you than enlist, and then you get a bad discharge.

My telling you this, I am not trying to scare, or dissuade you, I am trying to give you accurate and true information. You are wanting to do a good thing, the service is a good experience, but for your future be Honest.

69

I’m going to disagree with Intaglio. My recruiter told me to lie about several things that may have kept me out of the Air Force. Maybe I had a bad recruiter, but from others I talked to in the Air Force, he was typical. When asked the 300 “questions” in the recruiter’s office the first time, he told me to never change a single answer and that I would be asked those same questions hundreds of more times. I didn’t change an answer and I was asked hundreds of more times. Now, the things I lied about had no bearing at all on me being a good or bad airman. On the other hand, I DID lie and my recruiter DID tell me to lie.
Split, I would fail to remember the Wellbutrin the next time you go in. You can’t hide the credit problems but if it has no bearing on you today, why does the Air Force need to know or care about it.
My totally WAG is that 60%+ of the people in the Air Force (and I’d guess all of the US Armed Forces) lied to a recruiter. Do you really think that nobody in the military has ever smoked pot or had other minor indiscretions?

70

Well, I told my Army recruiter, and his superior, and the inprocessing center officers, and wrote down on the page, that I had smoked the unmentionable weed… and they said, OK, good, you sure you’re not smoking it currently?"and that was it. The credit thing makes sense: you don’t want to give a potentially sensitive job to someone for whom a suitcase full of cash from a Chinese consulate employee would solve a major life problem.

Of course, the current military has been quite downsized from where it was at the time of Desert Storm, the economy has gone South, and since the events of a year ago there’s both a rise in patriotic fervor and a greater concern about security, so they may have decided they can afford to be choosier about who gets in.
And dead0man, there was no excuse for a recruiter to advise anyone to deliberately lie: the kicker is, of course, that had the s**t hit the fan, it would have still been your ass – whose explanation do we think The Man will believe: some young punk E1 or a career NCO with 3 rows of ribbons? The lying recruiter only gets caught if there arises a recognizable pattern of a number of his recruits getting busted. He did say something that’s right: If you change your story halfway thru, you’re in trouble.

71

dead0man, you’ve just publicly admitted that you’ve commited a Federal Crime, and engaged in conspiracy to commit that crime, and implicated at least one other person in those crimes, and further have advised yet another person to commit a Federal Crime.

You’ll very likely never be prosecuted for it, but it’s still a series of poor decisions you’ve admitted to. You realize that was an unwise thing to do, I hope?

Now, I can’t speak to the Air Force’s policy, but Fraudulent Enlistment is treated quite seriously by the Navy. Lying on an Application for Background Check (Standard Form 86), or on any of dozen or so other official forms falls under Federal Juristiction. I’ve seen careers ruined by this, though fortunately, only a few. Most background events are waiverable, provided the applicant is honest and upfront. That includes Pot. Hell, I was sent to SUBDEVGRU ONE as a Nuc, and I checked into the boat alongside another Nuc, with a Pot Waiver. He was granted clearances that I can’t even tell you about. Why? Because he was honest.

When I came “Off the Bag”, I worked in District HQ. Being a fully Qualified Canvasser/Recruiter, and very skilled at blueprinting, I often found myslef working at MEPS, doing final Package processing. If the Applicant hid it, I found it. And yes, JRDelirious, I took the stories of Recruiters telling Applicants to lie very seriously.
I destroyed two careers for doing so. They deserved it.

The final Check comes at Boot Camp, when the Recruit Quality Assurance Team gets ahold of the scared, intimidated recruits, and pries out the remainder of the hidden stuff. Something like 96% of recruits admit to having hidden something (usually quite minor). Less than one percent claim that they were told to lie. Less than 5% of Those claims are substantiated.

It’s axiomatic: Applicants lie.
Why? Because they want in, and are scared that they’ll be denied.

So, Split, be honest. In fact, go one further… Shock your recruiter by bringing your documentation with you! That you have your Medical Records and Financial Info with you when you come through the door, you’ll show them that you mean business, and want to help them get you in. That alone can make the difference in borderline cases. I’d have far rather have worked with a motivated and clued-in Applicant with a history, than with an apathetic and resentful one with a spotless record.

Come to think about it, I did work with a lot of them. I loved helping kids straighten out their lives, get jobs. So, I took a lot of hard-work cases, because it was more rewarding.

Any recruiters out there wondering how well I did with that philosphy should know: I hold seven Gold wreathes.

72

No disrespect intended to any of the military old timers on the board, but if you left the military more than 10 years ago you really shouldn’t be answering questions about living conditions, work weeks, or benifits. They have changed GREATLY in the last 10 years. My gramp, who retired from the Army after Vietnam, loves to give me advice about what to do or what to go for in the AF, and I love talking to him about it because it makes him feel good to be helping me out, but so much has changed that his information is pretty useless.

As far as my 2 bits on what branch to go into, IMHO the USAF is the best way to go. I spent 6 years enlisted in the AF from 95-01 and just finished my bachelors and have recieved a commision and will be re-entering as an officer early next year.

I spent alot of time in the armpits of the world in my 6 years. Kuwait, Saudi, Kunsan Korea (not to be confused with Osan which is like little america), UAE, and Kosovo and the AF guys always have the best living conditions in the field. I won’t go into specifics because I hate typing, but I always felt sorry for the Army guys coming in out of the sand eveyr 2 weeks to take showers and eat hot meals while I was watching AFRTS on our satellite link up.

USAF is as close to a 40hr work week job as you can get. Yes there are exceptions to that, just as in any career field, but for the most part, the majority of the people I knew worked between 35-40 hrs per week. When you get 30 days paid leave every year, + all federal holidays off, its a prety sweet deal.

Someone mentioned that you should not go into the military hoping to not get deployed into bad areas and they are right. I had one such deployment where I woke up on Tuesday morning with a mote on my dorm room door saying pack your bags your leaving and next thing I knew it was Thrusday and 12 of us were on a plane headed to Kuwait with no idea why we were going, where we aere going, or when we were coming back.

6 months later I came home.

73

Does three years make it for you, Stinkpalm? UncleBill serves currently (Reserve).

74

3<10

Sounds like it meets the criteria.

75

3<10

Sounds like it meets the criteria.

76

I left active service ten years back, and have been in and out of the SMCR, IMA, and IRR, and am now about to be further downgraded to whatever is less ready than IRR. My full-time experiences are ten years old, and I try to either talk about enduring qualities (fire extinguishers and 28 degree rolls will be on the friggin Starship Enterprise) or the traits of people within a group such as that, which I contend will not change much.

And the Air Force will always have better chow halls, I mean Cafeterias, and better barracks, I mean Dormitories, than the Navy, Army, or Marine Corps.

Some things are timeless.

77

Tranquilis, in this as in so many other areas, you continue to amaze and impress! Your post about why our loved ones are in the service was fantastic- I’ve never heard it said better.

My brother was a Ranger, and has just gone back into the Army as a Green Beret. Special operations units are just that, special, and a bitch to get into. As Tranq mentioned earlier about another branch, in the Army you must volunteer multiple times to be airborne or spec ops (Rangers, Airborne, Special Forces, etc) and you must physically kill yourself getting there.

One note about the Rangers (it may apply to other elite units as well)- who goes into combat? Everybody- cooks, clerks, whoever. Each battalion travels as a whole and sets up housekeeping wherever it lands.

Perks? Education is a big one, as are base priviledges. The commisary and shopping at the base exchange will save you a fortune, and the medical care will cost you almost nothing. These benefits will extend after your tour of duty as well, provided you live close enough to shop on a base (don’t come to CA, most of ours are closed!). CHAMPUS insurance will still cover you, even if you get other insurance on civvie street. My MIL has private insurance, and everything they didn’t pay, CHAMPUS did. She went years without paying a dime for medical care, and that included a bout with cancer.

And every hotel chain in the free world has a givernment rate, which you get by showing your military ID. At most Marriotts, it can be half the rack rate.

Thank you for considering this. I appreciate it and so does my family.

78

Just have to say: People like Tranquilis embody what the services call “Core Values” and have made our military the ass-kickingest on Earth.