You’re making the mistake I’m talking about. You’re implying MAGA is voting against their own interests.
They are not, they got exactly what they wanted.
Someone that is hurting those people. That is all they care about and Trump is delivering in spades.
Exactly! The problems are
People that believe his lies about stolen elections.
People who favor one of his policies and ignore all of the other issues he create
People that believe American democracy is an impediment not something to be valued.
People who believe America should be exclusively white fundamentalists Christians that should be able to support themselves.
&c.
That’s 5.9 million people.
However, I interpret your post as referring to voters who went for Obama in either 2008 or 2012 and then voted for Trump in 2024. And I cannot find a number for that precisely.
On the one hand, many Obama voters could not vote for Trump in 2024 because they were deceased. On the other hand, some voted for Obama in 2008 but not in 2012. So, adding and subtracting, six million is still a good estimate.
In any event — there are enough swing voters to decide most presidential elections.
It’s really not the problem. The problem is he’s a fascist who is bringing down American democracy and disappearing people into camps.
It is terrifying and maddening that everything you say is clearly true and obvious to anyone, yet he still got elected. Its not like he “wrapped himself in the flag and carried a bible”, he is clearly a malevolent narcissistic sociopath, with no higher ideals beyond making Donald J Trump rich and famous. But that’s not the problem.
We’d still be just as f_cked if did a really great job of appearing as pleasant patriotic downhome southern Christian gent (at least we could tell ourselves that his supporters aren’t really supporters of fascism, they just fell for his pleasant persona)
Yes, MAGA’s did, but “He’s hurting the wrong people”. What do they do? They vote for him again.
That’s Republicans in a nutshell. And they say this while drilling holes in the boat.
I don’t know about T’s mental acuity. I don’t really care. He’s truly a hateful hurtful person. Someone best to avoid.
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My Brother in Law is/was a Trump supporter. Genuinely a nice guy that I like/d hanging out with. If he is still a T supporter, that may change. If he is still a T supporter, he is hiding many things about himself (racism, bigotry etc.)
Values in people mean a great deal to me. Nothing else really does.
That doesn’t make it in their interests though. They voted against their actual interests, and elected an obvious malevolent sociopath who clearly doesn’t care about them and their interests, just so they can see bad things happen to brown people.
That is not their “interest“.
You are confusing “what you think is best for them“ [you are most likely correct!!!] with their “interest“.
No that’s not what “best interests” mean. It’s in my childs best interests to eat some vegetables occasionally and not eat ice cream for every meal. The fact my child would happily vote for ice cream for every meal and no vegetables does not make it in their best interests.
I’m not suggesting we need to take away Maga voter’s agency and right to vote as they please, but just because they want something it doesn’t make it in their best interests
But he’s not doing it. It’s the 1/6 insurrectionists following his orders. It’s the ICE agents that believe all civil rights have been suspended. It’s state legislatures getting rid of DEI and abortion rights. It’s the military firing on Venezuelan boats and murdering foreign nationals. If no one listened to Trump he’s be another Barry Goldwater.
37-ish percent has been Trump’s approval “floor” since 2017. That’s apparently the percentage of America who is full-on in the MAGA cult, and will support him no matter what.
I know what their “best interest“ is. (affordable healthcare etc.)
I also know that their interest is seeing brown/gay/trans/librul people hurt.
I think maybe people are projecting some of their own insecurities here. Remember, you can run for president too.
Though that was always going to be the case unfortunately. Human nature and American society being what it is, I never had any doubt he was going to find enough people willing to obey his orders.
I did (naively it turns out) think he might get a little more push back from the Republican party, but it turns out they never gave a crap about any of the things they claimed to care about like the constitution and personal freedom etc.
I do think we might see a bit of push back from the military as his oppression increases, unlike ICE they didn’t sign up to violently oppress their neighbors. But I’m not banking on that stopping Trump in any meaningful way.
Without meaning to personally critique you, this attitude actually kind of sums of part of what is wrong with the Democrats. You have to accept voters the way they are, and try to win their votes accordingly. You can’t tailor your approach based off of what you wish voters were like.
Is it disgusting that people choose ego over the future of humanity? Sure. But it’s human nature. And in elections, you’ve got to win their votes. If you just wring your hands, “It’s disgusting that these voters choose ego,” and do nothing to appeal to them, then you’re just going to lose to your opponent that does cater to their ego.
This is exactly the kind of preachy “We are the parents, and they are the kids” attitude alluded to in that NY Times article linked to by PhillyGuy.
At this point we are arguing about semantics. The fact is the Trump voting base has real issues with the American economy and how they have been treated. Trump has not even pretended to have a solution for those issues, or understand them, or for that matter shown any indication he would piss on them if they were on fire.
All he has done is promise then bad things would happen to groups they don’t like, and carried out those promises.
I’m not proposing the Democrats run on that as their platform. But it doesn’t mean the Trump base has not absolutely voted against their interests.
It’s actually somewhat hopeful, hate can only get you so far, and it’s all Trump has. Yeah it’s gotten him a long way, and may still see him made dictator. On the other hand when then economy continues to nose dive bad things happening to brown people does not put food on the table.
so trump has multiple problems.
he has malignant narcissism, which is narcissism, sociopathy, sadism and paranoia combined.
he has a low IQ. thats not meant as an insult, he really just isn’t intelligent.
he has dementia.
those things are what is wrong with trump as a person. but a lifetime of wealth and fame has protected him from the consequences of his behavior. had he been born into a blue collar family he would’ve gone to prison years ago.
but thats not what’s wrong. what’s wrong is 77 million voters are fine with someone like this being president. in a civilized country trump would be a joke.
but in an age of multiculturalism and multi racial society, trump is an effort to reestablish white supremacy, patriarchy, nativism and Christian dominionism which are under threat from egalitarianism, secularism, feminism and multiculturalism.
his moral failings are if anything a plus. they signify to the US and to the world that no matter how corrupt, incompetent or evil you are. as long as youre white or a man you’re automatically better than a POC or a woman. A highly competent, moral white man wouldn’t send that message the same.
So much of this probably could have been avoided had Fred just hugged Donnie every now and then.
PJ O’Rourke said much the same years and years ago on Wait Wait Don’t Tell me.
In support of Hillary Clinton over Trump:
She’s wrong about absolutely everything, but she’s wrong within normal parameters
What conservatives don’t appreciate is that this country did not become the world’s largest economy and a military superpower by acting on the whims of uniquely brilliant Presidents. Steady reliability is far more important than lone wolf exceptionalism.