This One Isn't Even Close

Re: this warning. Arguing that an all-black school purporting to teach “black culture” as an alternative to whatever-it-is that is being taught in other schools and their test scores are abysmal - is trolling? WTH?

This isn’t even a gray area. Please rescind the warning.

Regards,
Shodan

No skunk thinks his own ass smells. OF COURSE you don’t think it’s problematic.

If you were trying to say that this school is teaching a culture of failure, which is black culture, then you were perfectly clear, and were saying a trolly racist thing. If you were trying to say anything else, you abjectly failed to communicate your idea clearly.

I can’t parse this sentence: “Arguing that an all-black school purporting to teach “black culture” as an alternative to whatever-it-is that is being taught in other schools and their test scores are abysmal - is trolling?”

What does it mean? What were you arguing?

If you didn’t intend to correlate between blackness and stupidity, it would have been easy to say so. Still is.

It wasn’t trolling. It was racist. So… you’re right? I guess?

LOL, I got warned for calling you a liar when you lied, and sure as hell didn’t come running in here like a pussy-assed bitch whining about it like Rush Limbaugh expressing his special brand of rugged individualism. Damn, guy, grow a pair.

The problem from my POV is that the flow of the thread needs to be spelled out so obviously.

The OP suggests a topic of debate, where black students are being suspended too much. The purported reason is that teachers in their schools don’t understand their culture, so they discipline them for doing things (interrupting and being late were two examples mentioned) that non-black students got away with. That’s debatable, so we debate it. Then this one school is mentioned, where they teach all-black culture. Presumably, since it is an all-black school, they understand the culture of their students, so racism or not understanding black culture is not going to be the issue.

Yet their test scores are abysmal. 90% are less than proficient in math, and 75% less than proficient at reading. Understanding black culture and allowing for it doesn’t seem to address the problem of learning.

If you want to quibble about African-American vs. black, the name of the freaking school is the African Centered Academy. The picture on their website, to which I linked, shows all black students. And the school is in Kansas City - it’s not that much of a stretch to figure out that they are teaching African American kids. Here’s another quote from their website -

So, there’s their culture, and the basis for their teaching.

Not seeing a lot of evidence that racist teachers who don’t understand black culture are going to be an issue. Yet, their test scores suck.

So, there’s the flow of the thread. Students are getting disciplined because teachers don’t understand their culture. Therefore, they don’t perform. Yet, at the African-centered school, they still don’t perform. Which is an indication that, just maybe, the problem isn’t that teachers don’t understand them.

Pointing out that changing a variable doesn’t seem to affect the outcome isn’t trolling. It’s debate.

That this African-centered school is just as bad at teaching as non-African-centered schools is a perfectly legitimate point.

Regards,
Shodan

How many times has this guy been warned? It’s obviously not working. Ban him.

No, the statement in the thread was that teachers are harsher on black kids for the same behavior because the teachers are racist, either overtly or as a result of implicit bias. It’s even possible that black teachers share those same biases, in some cases.

Other people made the assertion that black kids really were more poorly behaved than other kids, because black parents either have poor parenting skills, simply don’t care about their kids, and/or have no sense of responsibility toward their kids’ behavior at school. This was called “black culture” by the people espousing that view.

No where was educational outcomes (which is different than discipline) relevant. Furthermore, what this school means by “African Culture” is NOT what the people in that thread were describing as “black culture”.

I think this would have been an interesting and thoughtful post in the thread, even if it appears to understand the main thrust of the “other side’s” arguments differently than I do. Unfortunately, all we got is flippant snark that (by my reading, anyway) lazily blamed “black culture” for poor test scores.

EDIT: My understanding of the arguments in that thread is much closer to Manda JO’s in the immediately prior post to this one.

Let me be clear up front. I’m not reversing the warning.

A couple other points: First, teaching black culture at that particular school wasn’t an alternative, it was supplemental. Second, the thread was about discipline in schools, not test scores. Your post attributed poor test performance with black culture, whatever that may be, and said nothing about discipline.

It’s not a stretch to see your post as saying black culture is defined as poor academic performance. If a person said directly that black culture involves poor academic performance, basically black people are stupid, I’d likely issue a warning for that so this is essentially the same thing.

Yup. Shodan, there’s the possibility that you could learn that posts like the one you just made are interesting and not warnable. I mean, I think you’ve got some messed-up underlying assumptions (which I won’t get into here because that’s not what this thread is about), but it’s worth debating.

Posts like the one that got warned are opaque and snarky. Even if you intended people to understand it as meaning the same as what you just posted, nobody understood it that way. You could learn not to make those snarky drive-by posts that have become more your signature than “regards, Shodan” is.

Or you can continue making those opaque, snarky posts, and continue getting warned. That’s an option too.

Moderator Warning

Do not post in ATMB just to insult someone. This is an official warning for Personal Insults outside of the Pit.

Teaching black culture at the African CENTERED Academy is supplemental? Come on.

My point was, and remains, about an alleged lack of understanding of black students’ culture. The African CENTERED school does no better than non-African CENTERED schools. Therefore, a lack of understanding of black students’ culture does not help, and therefore a lack of understanding of black students’ culture is less likely to be the cause either of student failure or suspensions.

What I said is exactly what I said. Black culture or the lack of it or the understanding of it or the lack of understanding of it makes no difference to poor academic performance. Teaching black culture, understanding black culture, makes no difference to the outcome of poor student performance.

Black culture is not defined as poor academic performance. Teaching black culture, or understanding black culture, is irrelevant to poor academic performance. Which indicates that failure to understand black culture is not the reason for poor academic or disciplinary outcomes - because whether they appear or not does not affect the outcomes.

It is a legitimate debate point. A difference which makes no difference, is no difference.

I would ask you to reconsider your decision.

Regards,
Shodan

This is a snark-free argument. I think it’s incorrect on the facts, and leaves out that this has nothing to do with discipline (what are the disciplinary stats at the school in question, for example?), but it’s still a real argument. The kind of argument that never gets modded.

But that’s not what you did in the thread. You did a drive-by, lazy snarking, that was rather easy to see as a potshot at black Americans (whether or not it was meant as such).

You’re right about that. What you posted very clearly implied that “black culture” means “low educational attainment.” Your post hoc attempts to recast your comment are unconvincing.

The rest I don’t care about debating but ----- I taught at an all-black Catholic School and trust me, nothing you could call culture of any color was taught. Religious or possibly community but not any race at all. What we taught was the standards needed for the future; a good all-around education. And considering how many of the kids did (and continue to) succeed we must have been doing something right.

QFT. Perhaps if the OP would put more effort into his arguments, rather than merely attempting to appear adorably pithy, his points would be better understood, and he wouldn’t have to clarify his remarks and plead for mercy in ATMB.

Great job, Bone.

Shodan, that warning was clearly deserved.

Regards,
hajario