Doh, left out a thought somehow…
“This is not a case of a 20 hr travel with a baby being unable to nurse. It is a (roughly?) 1.5 hour flight with a toddler .”
So I think that claiming airlines are forcing women to feed starving babies chicken based on this story is a bit (ok a lot) over the top.
I agree. Who did that?
I must apologize, claim was the wrong verb. I have turkey brain. But I still don’t see the point of positing such an outlandish question (scenario?, hyperbolic joke?-- whatever you want to call it).
I have in general found airlines very very cooperative in flights with a nursing kid. I have even been offered drinks myself when no one else got drink service on a 1 hour flight (Yay Southwest!) simply because they saw I was nursing. Most passengers seem happy to see a nursing kid, because it means the kid won’t be screaming or kicking their seat. I am surprised by the woman’s treatment in the story, and don’t think it’s worth drawing sweeping conclusions from her single experience. Others’ MMV, of course.
But I’m with you on the general national prudishness.
I agree, Which is why I have blamed *her *throughout the thread. However the airline apologizing, and later reapologizing, came after the news was out and there were already protests. I wasn’t aware of their apology. Apparently the airline is either a)lying, b)not informing their employees of their own policies, or c) simply unlucky to have a flight attendant and a spokeperson who don’t know their policies.
Ok, I’m not a mom, and don’t care much about kids, but, by the way, whence the squeamishness about ‘extended nursing?’ Is nursing a 4 year old (to go with a suggestion of something seen as excessive’) really that disturbing? Apparently so; what, exactly is disturbing about it? A perceived prolonged ‘infancy’ of the kid-- like he/she being socially retarded somehow? Or is it something perceived as sexual? (I notice that the horror of prolonged breastfeeding seems to mention boys most frequently-- is this a hangover of some Oedipal concern? What’s the difference between 2 months and 4 years? It’s not like the kid’s hit puberty yet, or is sexualizing its mother because of the feeding. Is it a sort of concern for the kid ‘growing up’ on time-- i.e. as soon as he or she is able to eat ‘real’ food the kid should stop having mom’s milk for a particular reason, for maturity or something, in order to keep milk and nursing as strictly utilitarian rather than as something comforting/ pleasant/ bonding (in order to de-sexualize, de-wimpify or otherwise de-fang the procedure by making it strictly nutritional?)? What’s the foundation of the unease here? I’ve never thought about it much so I’m not sure I would answer myself. . . I guess I can accept that there are people who are unnerved by breastfeeding at all-- I’m asking about people who are ok with it to a CERTAIN age. What is it about the age?
I have known moms who have breastfeed up to 6 years. There is nothing wrong with it, either psychologically or physiologically. I have yet to see any medical authority say that under normal circumstances it is not a good thing. It is still good for the kid. The reason why I’ll stop at two years is because I will have a couple of elective surgeries and I want to do it as soon as possible, not in detriment of my child though.
I hope I don’t have to explain why it is good for a child to be breastfed. It is the best thing I’ve done for my child; she is strong as an ox.
That’s because you’re a fucking imbecile.
None of your fucking business, moron.
It’s well within acceptable bounds, medically and physiologically, to breast-feed a 22 month old child.
Kudos, indeed. That’s excellent.
Wow, I thought I was being fairly diplomatic with my post. I’m not anti breast feeding by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m also not a fucking tit Nazi either.
But, ya know what? It is my fucking business when you decide to partake in an activity in a public place, moron. Public VS Private. Did you have a bad day or are you usually this much of a combative douche nozzle?
It is perfectly legitimate, appropriate, and desireable for a 22 month old to be breast feeding. And that’s a medical opinion.
Now in this scenario, plane is 3 hours late, kid is cranky, mom is engorged, next to the window in the second to last row, screened by her husband, nursing, declines to cover up the kid with a blanket (used by unknown numbers of other folks) to avoid “offending” a flight attendant, gets kicked off the plane against both law and airline policy, and you think it’s your business to judge mom for not giving the kid something other than breast milk?
:rolleyes:
I’m this much of a combative douche nozzle with self-righteous lobotomy victims like you who want to dictate what other people feed their children, especially when it’s been pointed out to your idiotic self by quite a few people that breast feeding at 22 months is perfectly reasonable, from a medical and physiological point of view. If that child hadn’t previously had “crackers or fruit or whatever” as part of its diet, then adding those things on a flight might not have been a very good thing to do.
And, despite your protestations, you apparently are something of a “tit Nazi” if you want to dictate to someone that they shouldn’t breastfeed their toddler. Probably because the only thing between your own nipples is your belly button.
And, on preview, what Qadgop said.
Personally, I have wished that some children about that age I was flying with had something stuffed in their mouth. A breast seems ideal.
Honestly, I avoided breastfeeding my daughter in public after she was a year old, but I can well imagine making an exception while traveling especially on a plane. It generally calmed and quieted her, and I would be eager to have her not fussing on the plane. Also, flying tends to wreak havoc on schedules and I can well imagine finding myself needing to nurse or pump on the plane. It does hurt if you miss a feeding. And there was no covering up with my daughter; she wanted to see the world and would rip any covering right off. I was successful at getting her not to uncover the other breast while she was feeding most of the time, which was at least some victory. I nursed her until she was two and a half. I started gradually weaning her at her second birthday and it was a relatively peaceful weaning. Her pediatrician praised me for nursing as long as I did. It was really the right decision for us. I don’t understand why people are so bothered by breastfeeding past the first couple of months.
The flight attendant screwed up. She made her employer look very bad in a way which was easily avoided, and easily predictable.
I was apalled at this story as well. Nursing needs to be promoted and encouraged, it is the most natural thing in the world and the fact that it’s still somewhat taboo is pretty weird. I’ll add in my rationale for her nursing soon after or during takeoff, babies and toddlers don’t know to do that pressure adjusting yawn or pinch and blow of the nose thing to equalize their ears and as the plane is ascending this can cause pain. A swallowing and sucking action can cause the ears to pop naturally as the plane gains altitude and you don’t have a crying infant or toddler to hear which I’m ALWAYS in favor of.
People keep asking why shouldn’t older children breastfeed… well I think Ruskgeekgirl provides the answer here. Who is running the show here? The two-year-old is. She’s become dependent on suckling your breast to be emotionally comforted. Shouldn’t she be developing the “big girl” skills of being able to comfort herself? When breastfeeding ceases being about nutrition and becomes solely about coddling or babying an older child who is USED to it and throws tantrums if she doesn’t get it, it’s my opinion that it’s time to stop. The kid should learn that mommy’s body isn’t her own personal milk machine and sucky toy anymore. The child needs to learn coping skills. I think it’s babying and spoiling to let a 2-year-old walking talking child to demand the use of your breast anytime, anywhere.
Kids have to learn to grow up. There’s a point in time where a kid is too old for a pacifier, or too old for a blankie, or too old for diapers… as much as the kid might fight giving up the pacifier or fight toilet training, it’s part of growing up.
When my daughter and I are both ready for her to stop nursing, she will. Until then, there is NO GOOD REASON for me to stop. It’s healthy, it’s inexpensive and it’s ridiculous for me to waste perfectly good milk in order to keep from offending some prude that can’t handle the sight of a mere peek at my breast.
It has already been stated, and many cites could be provided to show that breastmilk is nutritious for a toddler. It is not used for “coddling” her or “spoiling” her. It’s NATURAL that she is comforted by nursing. It’s not like it’s the only way she is comforted. She has learned to comfort herself, but in a new situation such as what might happen on a plane it may not be so easy for her to adjust to, at least not as readily as onlookers in earshot would appreciate. Pop a paci or a bottle and I’m sure most of the complaining passengers wouldn’t bat an eye, but let me comfort her in a natural, normal way and people start getting offended.
You point out one reason why I might nurse my daughter, but you overlooked the leaking breasts and the hunger factor. But you know what? It doesn’t matter why I’m still nursing.
Whatever MY reason for nursing MY child is MY business. I am no nursing nazi or lactivist or whatever cutesy term anyone could come up with. I didn’t even plan to breastfeed this baby until she was already born because it’s not that easy. I don’t care what anyone else does…formula, breastmilk, it doesn’t matter to me. You are more than welcome to do whatever you wish when it comes to your own child but don’t you dare try to insult my parenting skills just because I am nursing mine until she’s ready to wean. I have already raised (and weaned naturally at one year) an intelligent, well-spoken, unspoiled, non-coddled 17 year old daughter who is in her first year of college, so I can tell you from experience I’m pretty damned good at my job.
Indeed. I’ve certainly never seen anyone breastfeeding an unborn baby.
In nature, our nearest relatives (chimpanzees and bonobos) generally breastfeed until about the age of three, after which they are weened off onto solid food (or what passes for it in the chimp diet). I don’t know where the notion that women should stop feeding after a couple of months comes from, but it’s not anywhere in medical or pediatric nutrition literature; the Surgeon General recommends breast milk only for the first six months, preferably for the first year, and formula or breastmilk until children are capable of sustainment on solids (16 months to 2 years). These are minimums. Breastfeeding has a strong correlation with overall health and correct weight during development, and while studies of the affect of breastmilk versus formula on intelligence are tenuous at best, there’s little reason to believe that breastmilk is harmful.
Aside from the long-discredited Fruedian theory of psychosexual development, I’m not aware of any widely accepted theory that extended breastfeeding is detrimental to a child’s long-term development, whereas prematurely terminated breastfeeding is widely thought to be a factor in dythymia and other chronic depression-related syndromes.
Jesus, I don’t even have a dog in this fight (I have no children and am anatomically unlikely to be breastfeeding in any case) and even I think your statement is offensive and obtuse. A two year old is not a “big girl”; it’s a toddler that is still almost entirely dependent upon Mommy and Daddy to provide comfort, security, and nutrition. One of the purposes behind breastfeeding, rather than forumla or pumped milk, is in fact to provide comfort and reassurance to a chlid. I can see this being particularly important during a stressful situation like air travel. (Heck, sometimes I’d like to curl in fetal position and suck on something warm and nutritious while I’m stuck in Houston waiting for Southwest to get their act together.)
It’s good not to artificially overextend dependence, but children develop at different rates, and whereas one child may voluntarialy give up a pacifier at 18 months, another might carry it to three years. There is, again, no substantial reason to believe this is somehow a hinderance to long term development, and many of the great minds of the 20th Century had extended periods of infantile behavior. (See Einstein, Albert for an example thereof.) Trying to force every child into the same developmental timeframe is an absurdly rigid mentality guaranteed to cause problems later on.
Even if we assume that there is something “weird” about a woman breastfeeding a 22 month old (despite the sage Qadgop’s learned opinion), who exactly is being harmed by this? Is the sight of a bared breast so utterly hazardous to the health and well being to the American public that it must be covered regardless of the discomfort and discommodation to mother and child? Will the foundations of society crack if a woman is seen to be feeding a toddler in public? Is this a scourage to our youth that will stimulate a downward spiral of sex, drugs, and Satanic rock & roll? It strikes me as being an esthetic disaffection by people socialized to fear nudity in a nonintimate context lest they somehow become sex-crazed maniacs akin to the murderous stoners in Reefer Madness.
Stranger
And I was looking to make a joke on “comfort herself.”
I divide the blame between manufacturers of baby formula and the ‘arrest everyone for being naked under their clothes’ crowd.
I have a logistical question?
How would you breastfeed a twenty two month old on a plane? It seems like it would be one of those “near impossible feats” in a coach class seat. I have a couple of girlfriends who did extended breastfeeding and a toddler isn’t the simple package once they are bigger. And I’ve flown with toddlers (my own) - for such small people they take up a lot of space on an airplane. It would be one of those logistical situations where I’d bring a sippy cup - make sure to feed before getting on the plane - basically do everything to avoid the contortions required to breastfeed on a plane - but then when I fly I try to do that when its just me (is my book in my hand? - cause reaching into my carryon stashed under the seat is a trick worthy of Cirque.)
Not that I’m saying it couldn’t be done, just that it seems really difficult to manage.
Breastfeeding a two year old on a plane does not seem to me the logistical feat that some might think. Unlatch the cup, and make a motion to lift shirt, and the hungry twenty-two month old would latch on no matter what. Sure a two year old takes up a lot of space when they want, but they can also squeeze in tight spots when they want. For logistical feat, try breastfeeding an infant in a car seat. Extra points if you can keep your seat belt on.
Now what the flight attendant should have done is offered some water for her to drink. Nursing is very thirsty work.