This woman simply has no idea how to dress-a continuation

In My Humble Opinion
1

Back to this particular person and thread, if you don’t want to read thru it, I have an employee that needs to get a better image at work, and business casual clothing is recommended. She’s 30 and just been promoted, a nice promotion that includes meeting influential people and new vendors.

So I asked in the prev. thread how to address it in her review, got some great suggestions and the review went well, and she agreed to work on the issue. In fact, at my manager’s suggestion, it was listed as one of the 5 key goals. It is a problem.

So it’s a larger issue. The woman simply has no idea how to dress. She complained that her 1 pair of nice dress trousers cut her in the middle and was uncomfortable. I mentioned the magic word-spandex. Many dress trousers can be purchased with a percentage of spandex for a little “give.” So she went out and bought spandex I think you would call them “jeggings” in blue and black. Sigh. After a month the knees are sprung and the cuffs, if you could call them that, are all for want of a better word, curly. I know there’re nice dress pants with spandex, hell, I own a lot of them.

And after buying those pants, she just kind of quit the project. I have never, btw, commented on the pants.

She has no idea how to coordinate any outfit, she seems completely oblivious to what other women are wearing. Today she’s wearing jeans, a striped jersey looking shirt and a quilted vest. Not biz-casual, she looks like a 14 yr. old boy.

What can be done? I doubt she’d go for the personal shopper idea, although I’d pay for it for a holiday gift. I could take her shopping but that seems out of place to me although we get along well-I don’t want a mini me, just a more professional look. A nice fat gift cert to one of my favorite (and very very reasonable) places to buy work clothes? But I need the “What not to Wear” people, damn you for cancelling that show, to take her shopping and help her, because she truly honestly has no idea how to dress.

Oh and she does have a mother who does dress nicely and appropriately (works in another division here, and is an old old friend of mine who shares the concern) but mother says it just always ends up in a fight if she tries.

2

I am no expert, but:

If it’s on her goal list, then it’s also on you to provide her the support and education to meet that goal. So, I don’t know where you are at geographically, but if it’s anywhere moderately urban, there have got to be, um, “style/life coach” sorts of people out there charging money to help people “walk the walk” in the professional world. Maybe allocating some of your department’s training budget towards enrolling your employee with someone like this?

3

There are numerous resources on how to dress–including her mother, apparently. You’re not requesting a Tootsie suit, pantyhose & dress pumps–just business casual. Five pairs of slacks, twice that many shirts or blouses, accessories. Really not hard.

You can’t take her by the hand & lead her through the stores. Offer suggestions but, if she doesn’t improve by her next performance review–ding her. If she wants to keep that job, she’ll shape up.

If not, not.

4

I don’t understand the issue. You told her in her review that she needs to wear business casual. Tell her to show up at work in business casual the next day. If she doesn’t know what “business casual” means, tell her to use the Internet or recommend some store you know that sell women’s business casual attire.

If she shows up the next day without business casual, send her home to get some business casual for the next day. If she shows up again without it, send her home for good. Not sure why you are hand-holding a 30 year old person.

5

To me you seem very hesitant about being frank with this woman. You should basically tell her everything you’re telling us and the advice you’ve gotten. And expect results and hold her to it.

Short of that, find out her size and buy her a simple outfit that matches your expectations and give it to her.

And if you’re as personally interested in her development as you seem, why not take her shopping, it’s important to your business.

6

Well, aside from tying her to a chair and propping her eyelids open, like A Clockwork Orange, and making her watch 100 episodes of What Not To Wear, I still think you’d best offer very specific advice.

If the pants cut her in the middle, then she should go up a size. If that causes gaping or sagging in the butt, then it’s time to turn her on to the wonderful world of tailoring. In most major department stores, there is an alterations department where she can get clothes altered to fit. They tell you this on What Not To Wear, just about every episode. Our bodies are often difficult to fit off the rack, but that’s why there’s alterations departments.

It could be that she should simply try a different cut. Pants have all sorts of different waistlines – at Target there’s a helpful chart on the wall to explain this.

You should talk about which fabrics are okay and which are not, e.g., avoid denim. Even on casual Friday. Spandex is probably not the best word choice because Spandex implies skin tight and that would not be work appropriate. Cotton, linen, or poly blends would be more appropriate.

Blouses with buttons. Sweaters can’t have pilling. No stains, rips, or wrinkles.

She should invest in one good skirt or pants suit – if she can find a three-piece combo that has a skirt and pants with matching jacket, that would be great. I found one of those at Ross for $40.

There’s another tidbit of advice: She has to make a decision. Spend big money on a few staple pieces that she can pair with other things, so she will have professional clothing that lasts for years OR spend little money on many more trendy pieces that she would have to replace more often. With the former, the styles tend to be more classic cuts and maybe a little boring, but easy for the fashion-impaired. With the latter, you haven’t invested a whole lot in any given piece, so wearing a skirt for three months and then throwing it in the Goodwill bin is still getting your money’s worth.

Another suggestion you could make is try more dresses. Dresses are the easiest thing in the world, put one thing on, whoomp, you’re dressed. No matching or pairing required. Except for shoe choice.

Give her very specific advice about shoes because shoes matter – bad shoes can make an expensive Neiman Marcus suit look like Ross Dress for Less. (Not that there’s anything wrong with Ross, you just have to replace clothing quicker because poorer quality doesn’t hold up as well.) Are open toe shoes okay? What about peep toe? Loafers? Can she wear loafers with a dress? Heels with pants? Knee high boots with skirts?

At my previous job, we moved into a new building and the executives wanted people to act and dress like we were working for a major corporation. So we strengthened the dress code policy and then held an all-employees-mandatory meeting wherein we actually gave a fashion show. Various managers agreed to dress in proper business wear, business casual, casual day appropriate, and What Not To Wear. (I was What Not To Wear on Casual Day – cut off shorts, a halter top, no bra, baseball cap, flip flops.) This gave ALL employees clarification on what was appropriate and it was also fun and silly so the lessons were remembered. We even got a local Goody’s store to let us borrow the clothes. I got to go over there, pick out my own outfit and then had to return all the stuff to the store after the meeting. I think that was the best part – the clothes were all from an affordable discount store, yet everything looked appropriately business-y. I’m sure most companies are not willing to go to such lengths, especially when it’s only a problem for just one person.

But it really sounds like she needs Clinton and Stacy to help her out. Barring that, maybe suggest she ask the saleswomen for help at the stores. I worked at The Limited in college and I had to put outfits together for people all the time. That was my job. Even at The Gap or Old Navy, if you explained to someone that you had to step up your pro game, they should be able to help you out.

7

Well- lets break this down.

You jointly created a forward moving development plan for your employee, with one of the points being continued improvement in the area of business professional dress for her new position. She started, then stopped. But you didn’t mention it.

She is dressed inappropriately today (or recently, like a 14 year old boy) for work. But you haven’t mentioned it.

You would like to give her more opportunities to make better choices, at your or your departments expense, in work clothes but you don’t want a mini me-quite understandable.

But most telling of all- her appropriately dressed Mom that works in another department, who you count as one of your old friends, said that she never pushed it because it would end in an argument? Why are you discussing this with her? How small is your company?

And what do you have? Well- do you want an employee or do you want a friend? In the original post I had mentioned it was a matter of skill or will. I do not believe, from what you are telling me, that she has “no idea”. IMHO, she does not care. As her manager, you need to be consistent in your message, which it appears you haven’t been.

And why would she care about keeping up? There has been no consequence as an employee. So either this is a real department concern, which would entail an escalation to a verbal/written OR you are the only person that is worried about her lack of dress as befits her position, and you let it go.

Before the fire and pitchforks begin, left me add that unless her slovenly dress can be attributed to other factors such as emotional or medical concerns, which then she should be redirected to HR to recommend an Employee Assistance Program.

So maybe, stop stressing about the dressing…

8

I can’t speak for the OP, but there are plenty of people in this PC world who consider being frank to be offensive and/or harassment. I’ve run into a few of them; I don’t want to go into detail, but you would not believe how quick they can be to take offense.

9

No, there aren’t. This is the kind of thing the Donald Trumps and Chris Christies of the world fall back on when they insult people by saying insulting things – why do you hate me for my honesty?!

10

I don’t think purchasing clothing is the right way to go. If you get something that doesn’t fit her correctly and she doesn’t look good or isn’t comfortable, it will just be another excuse to feel hopeless about the situation.

I vote for getting her to a professional shopper that can get her in to clothes that fit and flatter, and tell her why they fit and flatter. And start with a [del]good[/del] great bra.

Finding shit that looks good on you is daunting and exhausting for a newbie. She needs someone that can point her in the right directions AND do some of the legwork for her while she’s in the fitting room.

11

You know, I think that’s it. I will. She is to be my replacement, and as much as I would like to leave a fully formed communications administrator when I retire, probably in a month or 2, I am tired of this. She’s on her own. I wonder if I should tell the manager, who will be her manager, that I tried and I can’t. Or just toddle off into the sunset and let it go.

12

I think you’ve spent a lot of time and energy on this, and you’re well within reason to let it go.

If you do not want to let it go, why not ask her for a written update about her progress in each of her goal areas?

13

This makes me wonder what she wore to her interview.

14

If you want to deal with it at all, it’s time to have another talk with her.

One that goes along the lines of “We discussed your professional wardrobe in our meeting on whenever date. As you know, our office is a business casual workplace. I have noticed that your clothing choices have not been meeting that standard. Here’s a specific list of things that are not acceptable workplace attire.** If you’re having a difficult time deciding what to buy or what does or does not constitute acceptable professional wardrobe, X, Y, and Z department stores have a wide selection and offer personal shoppers/consultants on staff to assist you. Alternately, here’s the name of a couple of personal shoppers who can help.”

Then end the meeting.

**I’m assuming your company has a standard list of forbidden clothing they fork over to new hires - no denim, no tank tops, no open-toed shoes, no shorts, etc. Every single place I’ve ever worked had one that everyone got on their first day.

15

Hire a consultant, sit her down and point out that this her last shot at it. She can participate and step up to the requirements, or fall back to her old ways, her choice. But that choice WILL come with consequences.

You’ve tried every other gentle, subtle approach without discernible results. It’s time.

She’s not a child, if she can’t get this let her go or demote her back to her other position. Don’t feel guilty, you’ve clearly made several attempts to ease her into this. You have done your part, if she won’t do hers, that’s on her.

Good Luck!

16

Pretty simple:

“LOOK AT YOUR DAMNED CO-WORKERS. See how they’re dressed? Now pay attention. This is your last shot. You’ve spent all this time surrounded by examples of how you need to dress. Figure it out. NOW.”

17

I use Stitch Fix, a subscription service that sends curated clothing which you can try on at home and then keep or send back. They run just a bit casual and their prices are sometimes too high, but I’ve built a reasonable business casual wardrobe with them. They provide neat little cards showing ideas for styling an outfit, which can be a lot of fun.

Could be a good option.

But I agree it’s probably time to decide its out of your hands.

18

Since your manager will be her manager, and her/his problem, soon maybe you could ask the manager for advice.

19

When she shows up in jeans say “jeans are not business casual, do not wear them again.” Same thing with “leggings as pants” (leggings as tights under a long tunic can be fine, but that is sort of ‘advanced dressing’ - she isn’t ready for ‘advanced dressing’).

After three warnings, change the message. “I have told you jeans are not appropriate and not to wear them again, if you wear them again, I will need to start writing you up.”

Work on the jeans first. If she says she doesn’t understand, suggest that she talk to a trusted friend or relative, “perhaps her mother would take her shopping.”

There are three outcomes:

  1. You get compliance on the jeans
  2. You don’t get compliance on the jeans, in which case you need to fire her. If that is not the end game here, stop worrying about it and let it go.
  3. She quits

If there is any other end result (like she keeps wearing jeans), just capitulate now and face the fact she isn’t going to change and you aren’t going to do anything about it. Then stop adding the stress to both your lives.

If you get compliance on the jeans, give it a bit, then follow the same path with shirts. You may need to coach a little more on shirts (like 'invest in a few cardigans to cover up with or a few scarves.)

20

Wait, what?

This is your replacement you’re trainging up, and then you’re out the door?

In that case, I take back everything I said. You need to let it go. Just stop. You’ve tried, which is admirable, and more than once. This is no longer your problem. This is her next managers issue. And it may well be that they don’t care as much as you!

Just step back, you’ve done what you can. And stop worrying about it too!