Superman eats norse gods for breakfast.
If we start pulling esoteric powers (out of obscure past bad-writings) for Thor’s hammer, then Superman can just travel back in time and pop Donald Blake’s head like a melon before he even finds the hammer.
That would slow down Thor some.
Magic hurts Superman, but he’s still Superman. he’s been hit with mystical lightening bolts more times than I’ve had hot meals and he still wins the fight.
That series is buried back in Ireland. Hopefully it will deteriorate in time. Not sure that says much of anything. Thor was more than holding his own in the fight and Mjolnir has channeled mystical energy before without any problem (witness Dr. Strange’s use of the hammer as well as Thor’s ability to suck up all sorts of energy’s with it and fire them back at an enemy or on the enemy as the case may be).
Before I head off to lunch I just wanted to point out that I strongly disagree with your idea that Superman can equate with mythical figures. Again, if Superman is on par with an entity who was actually worshipped (unlike Hecules (who was a dem-god) or Perseus, Thor was actually worshiped as a God) then Elvis is the messiah as he is a damn sight more popular than Superman. Then again, U2 also appeared on the cover, Bono thinks he is Christ so maybe you have something here. Superman is up there with the Fonz or Kermit the frog, well known but hardly at the level of a God.
I tink that makes the point all the more clear. The Lightning of Shazam, even channeled through Mjolnir, a pwoerful artifact designed to absorb and redirect energies, still had enough jolt to knock blondie on his Scandanavian butt, whereas Superman stands up to strike after strike in KC.
Point 1) The Thor of the Marvel Universe is not the Thor worshipped by the Norse. He is a pale, blond imitation. Point 2) What does worship have to do with it? Demigod/heroes like Hercules and Perseus repeatedly defy the Gods, in their myths, and often the Gods can’t do squat about it. Point 3) Who’s Stronger, Ares, or Hercules?
I never equated Superman to a god-figure like Zeus or Ares. But mythology doesn’t just include Gods. Superheroes are a mythos of the 20th and 21st century just like demigods, heroes, and monsters were a mythos of the Greek and Roman periods.
No they are not. Thor was actually worshipped as a God. He was a member of a pantheon that was considered divine. Neither Perseus or Hercules was so worshipped. Further, if superheros are the mythology of the late 20th and 21st century then rock stars, tv characters and sporting heros are equally as legendary. All hail Roy Keane!
Superman is simply a popular character and nothing more. Thor was worshipped as a divine entity. Slight difference perhaps? Myths were used as morality plays and as actual scripture for the faithful. Comics are none of the above. Comics are are in the business of entertaining and that is all they are. To elevate them beyond that is simply an exercise in ego or an effort to justify a hobby.
Jeebus. Here, Cite. The Myth of Icarus, Daedalus, and the Labyrinth. Part of Greek Mythology. Show me the God. No major characters are Gods in that Myth. It has a moral, as you say - comics often come with similar morals, but the technology of the printing press and the mediazation of our society means we have comic books in such quantities that they can’t all be morality plays, or else they’d be pretty boring. It is not, however, scripture. Nor is the Iliad. Or the Odyssey. Or the Twelve Labors of Hercules. Or 99% of the other Greek and Roman myths that exist. They usually have a moral message, that’s true - but they’re also entertainment.
Say it with me now, slowly : Mythology does not equal divine.
Work with me here: Thor was divine. Thor was considered a God. Thor was actively worshipped. Hercules was not considered divine. He was a demi-God who was not worshipped. See how he differs from Thor? The scandanavian peoples actually prayed to Thor. They offered sacrifices to Thor and considered him to be an active God. I have pointed out these differences to you several times. Say it with me know slowly. Thor was a God in an active religion. Hercules et al were not.
If anything, television, not comics are our morality plays If Superman is mythological then he is part of the largest pantheon in human history which dilutes his influence considerably. Personally, I’d put him somewhere behind Kermit the frog.
Actually, Hercules was considered divine and was actively worshiped, at least to the extent that any of the Greco-Roman gods were. Myth has it that he was so powerful (and popular: Even back then, popular characters had an advantage) that Hestia/Vesta gave up her place among the Twelve Olympians in favor of Hercules. And even the heros who were not divine routinely went up against gods and gave a good accounting of themselves. Remember, one of the Greeks actually bested Ares, god of war, in single combat in the Iliad.
It’s also important to remember that the Greco-Roman beliefs in the gods were not really analogous to what we would consider religion. They were generally regarded as being somewhere between symbolic, mythical, or fictional even at their height. Ovid, one of the more significant mythological writers, prefaced his Metamorphoses by saying “I prate of ancient poets’ monstrous lies”. In short, the Greeks and Romans regarded the characters in their myths in much the same way that modern folk regard superheros.
Now, I don’t know how relevant this is, since Thor is, of course, Norse, not Hellenic. But I would imagine that he would be more like the Greek gods than unlike, and I’m pretty sure there are myths of mortals besting the Asgardians, just as they did the Olympians.
Interesting post Chronos. I believe Thor was actually prayed to though and he was considered a guiding force in battle and at see (lack of storms etc.). Was Hercules prayed to in a similar manner? No record in Asgardian myths (that I know of) of a mortal besting Thor. He was, along with his brother Loki, tricked by a magic-using frost giant by a series of illusions. Odinism (for lack of a better word) appeared to have been a semi-organized religion with scripture, rites etc. My main point, however, is that I would not put comic books or their influence anywhere near the Greek and Norse legends. Thor has influence more people and events in a very real sense then Superman ever has (or will).
And if I were trying to refute that Thor was worshipped as a God, your paragraph here would be relevant and meaningful. Since I’m not, it’s a pointless digression that illustrates you still don’t understand what I’m talking about.
From an earlier post of yours :
A sentiment that you have since repeated. That is what I refute. Why is that reelevant, you ask? Well, you attribute to Thor the mythical archetype of ‘Viking Warrior’, in addition to his divinity. Superman is the mythical archetype of the Superhero.
Good grief. I thought this might get sidetracked from “superheros” to “comic books.” The medium is irrelevant. Do you think the stories of Greek Mythology were all first presented as plays? Many started as oral traditions - spoken stories passed form generation to generation. What makes them mythology is that they have fictitious, larger-than-life heroes; acting in a world very much like the real world, but with additional supernatural elements; whose adventures tend to have epic scope and tend to relate to a specific message. Usually in Greco-Roman mythology, you got ‘Hubris is bad, mmkay?’, but sometimes other messages.