Thoughts on Mortality (Long, Rambling, Possibly Whiny and Depressing)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Well, if you got this far, on purpose, you were warned. I still recommend you leave now, but it’s up to you.

I am 45 years old. I have reached my life expectancy. Several months ago, actually. In my family, men, in particular, do not live long. My father died of a heart attack shortly before his 45th birthday. His brother died even younger, also of a heart attack. His father, my paternal grandfather, didn’t make it to 50. I mentioned my father’s death here , if you’re interested.

My mother died, of breast cancer, when I was seventeen. That was about three months shy of my HS graduation date, which had been her goal. She was diagnosed when she was 48. She hung on, through chemo and radiation therapy, hair loss, weight loss, multiple mastectomies and other surgeries, for four years. FWIW, she always ate right, rarely drank, and never smoked. Her father, IIRC, was in his fifties when he died.

So, here I am, having reached my actuarial life expectancy. Nothing wrong with me, physically, that I know of. But then, I don’t go to the doctor and, with today’s healthcare mess, it probably wouldn’t matter if I did, since they don’t do preventive testing, any more. Personally, I didn’t really expect to live this long. I don’t eat right, I don’t exercise, and I smoke like a fiend. Yet, here I am.

I don’t actually want to be here. I was hoping it would be over, before now. I have no real goals, and see no reason to acquire any, even if I could think of any worthwhile ones. I have virtually no ambition, anyway, so it’s unlikely I’d succeed in achieving those goals, if I had them. I have few real friends, and none that I would consider close friends. My occasional efforts to reach out to someone new always meet with the failure appropriate to the ineptitude of the attempt. (If you recognize yourself as being one of them, I apologize.) Family I’ve pretty well described. Personal life, don’t make me laugh. Potential for improvement therein? Nil.

In short, I’m done. If it were a job, I’d quit. Not that I’m contemplating killing myself. I believe people have the right to end their lives when they so choose. I believe they should do their best to make sure their absence imposes no unnecessary hardship on anyone else. But, beyond that, it’s your life; it’s none of my business. I choose not to.

I can’t really say why. There aren’t many who’d really miss me. No one really depends on me, other than my ferrets, and they’d be taken care of. My passing would be inconvenient for my gf. I can’t really say how upsetting it would be for her. It would upset my sister, but we’re not that close. A handful of other people would miss me, briefly, and then forget. My life has made no lasting impact on the world. I see no reason why my absence should disturb any more than my presence.

I have no organized system of beliefs, nor do I really want one. The closest approximation I can give to what I believe is a combination of universal life force (Pandeism, I believe, is the term. Think Jedi.) and Buddhism. I have reasons, however irrational, to believe in reincarnation. Perhaps I’m wrong. I have no reason to believe in either Heaven or Hell, though I often think this is Purgatory. If there is no reincarnation, then I believe when you die, you just die. You’re welcome to believe as you wish, but no, I’m not interested in discussing it. Thanks.

I’m not particularly afraid of dying. I’ve been living with the expectation for a long time. The familiar is seldom frightening. I just hope the pain doesn’t last too long. I’m not even sure what outcome to hope for. Sometimes, I hope for a new, more pleasant life. Sometimes, I dread the thought of having to grow up, again. One book I read theorized that young people are incapable of recognizing their own mortality as a defense mechanism. The idea being that, if they realized they were going to eventually die and have to go through all the pain of youth, again, it would be unbearable for them. Seems like a reasonable theory, given reincarnation as a postulate. So, if I had to decide, it would be a tough decision. At least I don’t have to make that decision.

I also have no reason to believe my next life, should there be one, would be any better than the current one. I try to do good, which I’m told helps your karma, but it generally blows up in my face. So, I don’t think that actually counts. I fully recognize how lucky I am, compared to some people. My next life could certainly be worse. But, I’m really tired of this one. If there is, as is postulated by some, a resting period of sorts, between lives, that would really be good.

Well, I think I’ve rambled on long enough. Sorry if this came out whiny. I tried to avoid that, but I’m not sure I’d recognize it, at the moment, if it were. Make of it what you will.

And, yes, I realize I’m depressed. I’m extremely familiar with the symptoms. Thanks. And, no, I’m not interested in seeing a shrink or being medicated. Thanks, again. But, my thanks to the board, as well, for allowing me this outlet.

2

Hi, Davebear. I’m sorry that you’re feeling so bum. Why are you choosing not to do anything besides post about your concerns? Is it possible that your brain chemistry has altered your ability to make sound judgments about what to do?

I’m just asking out of concern; I don’t intend to scold you. Your post matters to me.

3

I have no idea what to say, but I have read your thoughts. If it helps to know that there’s others out there listening, I’m out here listening, and sending good thoughts your way.

4

What? What do you mean? Are you talking about screenings? Of course they do screenings. I get several different screening exams and tests all the time because I have diseases that beget other diseases. Your insurance carrier may have chosen not to include them in the plan you subscribe to, but that in no way means they don’t do them.

Beyond that, what Zoe said.

And you are in my prayers.

5

Why are you so set against seeing a shrink or getting medication?

Clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance that can often be treated. If you had a different kind of chemical imbalance – like flu or athlete’s foot or ulcers – you wouldn’t hesistate to go to a doctor and get medication. Why are you afraid of getting treatment for depression?

And it sounds to me like you’ve got a fairly typical case of mid-life crisis. Age 45 is NOT your actuarial life expectancy. You probably have many, many years left. You can make them be fun, productive, enjoyable, “up” years… or you can make them be dismal, depressing, introverted, “down” years. Your call. A doctor and medication can help.

6

Davebear, you just about made me cry reading that OP. I wondered about a comment you made earlier in another thread, and I now I think that I understand. I am so sorry that you have fallen out of love with life.

Davebear, you are very likely the coolest person I’ve met on the boards yet. You have been willing to probe gently with interesting questions, to apologize and clarify when the situation calls for it, and to initiate thought-provoking discussions openly. You seem to be a warm-hearted, open-minded man who can make others laugh.

There have been so many times that I’ve wished I could just give up, and quit. Days are too long and too boring or too hectic and too lonely…there are a thousand reasons why I should just crawl back into bed. Or just…not be. Sometimes I found real reasons to keep on living, like the love of a friend or an ambition. Sometimes I can’t find that kind of motivation or feel any love extended to me to be genuine, and I find myself taking walks and staring around me at people’s yards and dogs and children in a desperate attempt to remind myself that* this is being alive.* That I’m lucky, that I am special and unique, that I bring good to the world and that someone will miss me. I hope that you can think these kinds of thoughts again, too.

I can understand to some degree your reluctance to bother with pursuing medication or seeing a psychologist. I do, however, acknowledge (or hope) that those people know what they’re doing. If you are unwilling to follow that route, however, you’re unwilling. So I say start small. Play with your ferrets, talk to your girlfriend, take a walk and look around. Could you take a trip to somewhere neat? Try to rediscover an old passion? Learn something new?

Davebear, you and I seem to get along pretty well, at least on the boards. If you ever need to talk or ramble or rant, please, by all means drop me an email. I would be honored.

Please keep holding on the idea that you don’t want to commit suicide. Even if you don’t think it will have an impact on the people you know, I can assure you it will. I lost one of my closest friends to suicide this past summer, and the sheer mind-boggling mystery behind his decision will haunt me for the rest of my life.

7

Wow. Having read a number of your contributions here at the SDMB, I think you seem pretty cool. I wonder why you think you’re not in real life? Just because it’s hard to make friends? Hell, we all have that problem. At least I do, and I’m super cool (well, okay, maybe just “kinda” cool, but I do know super cool people, and they seem to have trouble making “real” friends, too).

You do sound kind of depressed. If you do have trouble finding people to talk to out there, perhaps a therapist would do you good. It would also probably be worthwhile to consider the possiblility your blues could be due to some chemical imbalance in your brain.

As for your whole deal with reincarnation, well, see you in Great Debates! Just kidding, of course. :slight_smile:

Seriously, I hope you get to feeling better. I know life can really suck, but it can also be so much fun . . .

I really don’t know what else to say at the moment. If this were “real life” I’d buy you a beer or something. Right now I guess I should just say I feel for you and hope that things get better.

Take it easy. Peace.

–M

8

:frowning:
I wish I were good with words, but I’m not.

I think you rock, Davebear.

(((Davebear)))

9

Well. I didn’t really know what the response to this thread would be, but some of the reactions are pretty much what I expected, and some are totally unexpected. I was hoping to go to bed, but this may take a while.

First, I have to thank you all, for your concern and for wading through all that crap for a stranger. You’re extraordinarily good people. But, I do have to call your attention to the fact that I did say, twice even, that I have no intention of killing myself. And, I meant it. So, please, don’t worry. Depression is nothing new to me. It varies in its intensity, if that’s the right word, but I’ve been depressed for years. I’m used to it. You might even say it’s become my normal state. (Not that I’m pleased about this.)

I also have to apologize for giving you the wrong impression. Yes, I’m a bit more depressed than usual, but nothing I wrote came from that. I’m sorry I didn’t make that clearer. Perhaps I shouldn’t have written this particular post while in this mood.

But, this was not just a wail of anguish. Most of it was pure fact, or a best guess based on serious analysis. Some of it was theory, but I think those parts are pretty obvious. The rest of it is what I believe, no matter what my mood (except for the whiny parts, perhaps). I’m sorry it sounded the way it obviously did, to you folks. The tone was probably due to the depression, but not the content. I’m sorry it was so poorly written that this didn’t come through. I was tired when I wrote it, and I’m even more tired, now. So, there’s no telling how this is going to turn out.

So, on to your responses. Shrinks, as a class, are the most messed up people on the planet, with the possible exception of skinheads. I wouldn’t trust them to give me a recipe for cookies, let alone real mental health. I’m sure there are exceptions, but what are the odds? Even then, and I know this is going to sound odd, I’m a very private person, and I don’t like talking about myself. Boards like this are something of an exception. They provide enough “distance” that it becomes acceptable, to me. Besides, I pretty much know what my problems are. I just can’t do anything about them. And, neither could a shrink.

Meds? Well, my mind is not only how I make my living, it’s also about the only thing I’ve got, that I value. I don’t care to risk it going away, due to a mis-prescription, and I can’t afford to have it dulled by meds. I also have philosophical objections to the whole concept, where I’m concerned. If it works for other people, great. It’s not for me.

Could an imbalance be causing my judgment to fail? Good point, Zoe. I, obviously, would have no objective way of knowing. But, my analytical faculties don’t seem to be suffering, and I have evidence of this in my daily work. I also have what I consider to be sound, documented reasons on which to base my conclusions about those treatments. So, I’d have to say no, it’s not that my judgment is impaired, where that decision is concerned.

Life expectancy…sorry CK (Excellent name, by the way. I love that movie!), but I had a friend in the business run the numbers. Unless the actuarial tables have changed, recently, 45 is correct. Could I beat the odds? Sure. Do I want to? Well, no. That was the whole point. And, I had my mid-life crisis ten years ago. I’m on the accelerated schedule, you know.

My main goal in life was to make it this far and be in a position where my death would not be a financial burden on anyone. This I’ve done. I’ve reached my goal. Why can’t I stop, now? The parts about how little impact my passing would have was intended to illustrate just that. Few friends equals little grief equals little impact. Simple logic. Unfortunately, I got a bit whiny, there, so it was a bit muddled. Anyway, the point was I’ve done what I set out to do, I’m tired, and I want to go “home”, wherever that is. Kind of whiny, I admit. But, aside from that, what’s wrong with it? I get to go home from work when I’m done. I don’t see the difference.

lorinada – I misspoke. Yes, “they” can, and do, do screening tests. My doctor and health plan don’t, unless forced to.

Mephisto – no, it’s highly unlikely you’ll see me in GD. I generally have two or three debates going on, internally, at all times. That’s enough for me. But, thank you for the kind words.

And, to all of you, thank you. And, I truly am sorry for having polluted your lives with my crap. It started out as a philosophical discussion of mortality and spiraled out of control. I’m sorry it landed on you.

10

I’m so sorry. Had I known, I wouldn’t have posted it. And, I’m deeply touched by your response.

Yes, you do.

Ah, you’re SO sweet! But, you have no idea what you could be getting into. I couldn’t do that to you, tempting as it is. And, I’ll admit I almost did give in to the temptation. Honored?! No, dear, sweet lady. You honor me, and far more than I deserve.

I don’t expect this to change. And, I’m very, very sorry for stirring up such bad memories for you.

11

Ah, Branwen. Another sweetie. I’m sorry I made you sad. I think you rock, too. And, you ARE good, with or without words.

12

Davebear, I’ve used up less than half of what I expect my family’s life expectancy to be, and I’m still amazed I’ve made it this far. You have not polluted my life with your crap, or, if you have, it’s nothing compared to some of the pollution I’ve inflicted on others – just as Polycarp! There are good shrinks out there, at least three of them, but I agree they can be hard to find. You can also e-mail me if you need to, and believe me, I do have a pretty good idea of what I’m getting myself into. Consider it my way of repaying all the people who’ve put up with my crap over the years.

Life can still surprise, even when we think we’re too numb to be pleasantly surprised. If you need a friend, I’m here. If you need a God-awful joke, I’ll see what I can do. If you need something totally absurd and surreal, I think I can find some of that around here, too. If you need a shoulder to cry on or lean on, well, my metaphorical shoulders would suit a Chicago Bear’s lineman, even if my real ones don’t.

E-mail me if you need to, and be well,
CJ

13

Hi Davebear… I just happened upon your post and well… I was a bit taken aback … I am usually very sensitive to people’s feelings and, even through text like this, I can sense people’s moods often (scarily accurate a lot of the time). I wish I could have sensed this.

Firstly, for those who said they were upset or cried reading your post, don’t say your sorry you touched them in some way - you didn’t make them cry, they did it either because it reminded them of something else or because they are good people and hate to see someone hurting - crying is good, its healthy, its a safety valve so you don’t go postal … we should all cry more in my opinion! So don’t apologise, instead think wow these peope care - cos I really get the feeling they do ya know?

My family’s medical history is no story book either… my mother had cancer, major heart problems and finally died from a brain haemorrage (can’t spell that!)… I have had 5 major illnesses and been given that last rites I can’t even remember how many times … my father has ongoing issues which could, ultimately, lead to amputation of his leg. I am sure if I got your friend to run the numbers too, I’m sure I’ve outlived myself too … but I see it another way - the hardassed, f**k you school of sticking your fingers up at “the man” lol… I think hell, I’ve almost died 5 times, my family’s history is a nightmare and still I’m here - I’m really starting to believe they’ll need a silver bullet to get rid of me!!! And I’m getting a perverse pleasure in sticking around:D

I have also suffered from depression, though again not medicated because I didn’t want the side effects and I believe I didn’t require them. And since early December, I have to say I’ve been feeling quite shit… just down, depressed, crying a little too much… I will get over it and, in the meantime, I’ll get up in the morning and get dressed and work and eat and sleep and do it all over again the next time. Why? Cos what else is there? I’m not gonna kill myself, that’s never gonna happen - so what else is there but to go on? Sure I sometimes think wouldn’t it be nice to not wake up tomorrow but then I do wake up and I think, I have no clue what tomorrow is going to bring. I have my bf and I’m still shocked at how good all that is - if I’d just say bollocks to this, and done something about it, I’d never have known this love.

And tomorrow I could meet the person who’s gonna be my closest friend forever… or I could just see a child smiling up at its Mother and think wow thats kinda cool… I would never have met my new niece who is the most wonderful human being ever… so, the not knowing whats gonna happen, makes me think hey odds are that some things that happen are gonna be good and why the hell should I miss out on that?

I haven’t always been “the glass is half full” kind of person - I’ve had to train myself to find the positives in any given situation - believe me I once thought EVERYTHING in the universe was just awful. Now I try to find the proverbial silver lining… it works for me.

I’m not advising you that you should do this or that or whatever… we each find our own ways to cope with what life throws at us. Given your family history, I can totally understand you’re concerns re your life expectancy and, I imagine, you grew up with that thought in the back of your mind (I always thought I was gonna die by the time I was 16 - I’m 35 now so blows raspberry to the world!!!).

Please email me also if you wish - at the very least, I’ll try to be kinda funny and I might get a smile out of you!!!

I don’t know if any of this made sense or helped or anything… It’s more a flow of thought - which has gotten me in trouble before, believe me lol… I have a BIG mouth lol…

Do take up the email offer if you want to - and {{{{{{{{{major hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to you …

PS You should know that you have made me laugh out loud more than anyone on this board - and I don’t always do that, so :p:p:p from me :smiley:

14

cj, Thank you. One surprise life has dealt me is some of the people who’ve responded to this thread. (In retrospect, I should’ve anticipated SFT and Branwen responding to it, but I wasn’t thinking.) I’ve seen these types of responses, in other threads, but always assumed there was a prior relationship, of some sort, between the OP and the responders. And, I’m pretty much a total stranger to most of you.

The surprise is not the kindness people have shown. I’ve learned to expect that from most Dopers. It’s the tenacity that surprises me. I wouldn’t have made it through that OP, if I ran across it posted by someone I didn’t know. I consider myself to be generally a good person, in that sense, but there’s only so much I can take on, for a stranger. You’re clearly better people than I. And, if you read through both those posts of mine, you’re practically a saint, IMO. Particularly, in light of your astonishing offer of help. Whatever bad karma you’ve earned in this life should be pretty much cancelled by that offer.

I didn’t know Polycarp was a shrink. I hope he isn’t insulted, if he sees this. He’s one of the people on my Most Respected List, on this board.

And, Da Bears. :slight_smile: How can ya’ not love Da Bears? I was born in Chicago, and lived there until my Dad died. I’m still a fan. Yay, Pats, but, Go Bears! Besides, they’re the source of another of my nicknames; Da Bear.

Oh, god. On preview I see RH has stumbled into this cesspool, too. Well, at least the triumvirate is complete, now. I’m sorry, Honey, if I may call you that, I don’t think I can face reading your whole post, right now. I promise I’ll come back, later, and read it. But, I did see the part about you being an empath. Yet another thing we have in common. And, no, it’s not infallible, if the poster is careful. But, please don’t go re-reading our interactions in a new context. There’s no hidden subtext in my responses to you. Your zest for life has been one of the most healing aspects of my time on this board.

15

Ack Dave… hug

One thing about statistics is that they never work for the exceptions to the rule… and you never know when you’re going to be exceptional.

Not trying to depress you just think you need some background for the unsolicited advice I’m going to toss at you :slight_smile:

I’m not supposed to be here at all. I even did try to kill myself. I figured what the hell my life completely sucks with a homelife full of abuse and I was born with a kidney disease that they told me would result in both kidneys failing before I was 18 and then there’s dialysis and transplant but when your body rejects your own kidneys how the hell will it take someone else’s! Might as well get things over with early I thought… thankfully I failed.

I decided that this is it… we get one shot here in whatever you call this life and then we die. If there is karma and we do come back again I certainly didn’t want to start over where I was! I decided not to give my life away early. I too have never gone to a shrink and I have worked with them and known some excellent ones that I would recommend to anyone who wanted to know a good mental health person! Its not that I’m a private person… I’m loud and obnoxious and I will tell anyone my life story if they want to hear. I just had a bad shrink experience that soured me for life.

Anyway … I decided to adopt the strategy of hope for the best and plan for the worst. Doing it the other way around wasn’t working for me you see! Now here I am at 30 with my 1 and 1/3 children (did I mention they told me I was barren too?) And I still have both my own kidneys working at more or less capacity. And I haven’t seen my father in many many years :):slight_smile:

OK now for the unsolicited advice!

Have you thought of quitting this job? Not in a suicidal vein of course… but really… what’s to say you can’t quit your job, pack the ferrets in the car and test the waters someplace new? You feel you’re on borrowed time… make the most of it! Try a new career or a new state or backpack across europe… You can even chronicle your adventure with threads here so we can all go with you :slight_smile:

We are really the only people who can make ourselves happy anyway. Depression is difficult to deal with and I don’t want to make light of that. I’m just taking your post as you wrote it… you don’t want meds and you don’t want counseling so I’m thinking a change of pace would be good for you. It worked for me anyway :slight_smile: Hard to really make lots o sense in a post as many have said… feel free to avail yourself of the email button under my post (or over … forget where they end up) I promise to answer!!!

P.S. I took a deep breath and quit my job and reinvented my life once. It wasn’t easy but none of the best things are!!

16

Davebear, I also have depression, had it my whole life. I understand your reluctance to seek treatment, because I’m the same way. It does become a way of life, doesn’t it?

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I understand, and if you’d ever like to you can email me, too. Please don’t hesitate.

17

I know exactly how ya feel, hon’, and I’m not going to try to give you any cheer-up talk.

How are you doing for money? Got enough to just take off? Hop a tramp steamer? Do something you’ve always wanted to do, now that “you’ve got nothig left to lose?” Kick loose, have some fun–take up painting, or flagpole sitting, or hiking around the Welsh countryside, picking up food money doing chores.

If you have no dependents or responsibilities, the world’s your oyster, kid–take a cue from the great adventuruers of the pst and have a field day.

18

LOL stop worrying - I take people as I find them. Read it as you wish… I didn’t say you had to have a report back on my desk, 8.00 am on Monday did I? :stuck_out_tongue:

And thank you for the compliment - many people would doubt I have a zest for much lol… but I do, though sometimes I have to dig to find it lol…

19

Ohhhhhhhh I LOVE this idea… I wish I had the money to do it myself… I’d love to go the airport, hand over the credit card and say “next plane please” - knowing my luck, I’d end up in Iraq though :stuck_out_tongue:

20

Och Davebear…

Eve is probably wiser then me by not trying to cheer you up or advise you.

However, maybe this might be a consideration.
You feel rotten, and you use your very very high intelligence to bolster that feeling with good reasons. Your OP is an excercise in finding reasons “why life is a drab job that won’t get any better”
Those arguments may very well be true. But the feeling came first, not the arguments. If you felt better, this whole sound DrabLife theory would evaporate into thin air. Feeling comes first, reasoning follows. But tenacious-I-have-reasons-to-be-depressed-reasoning can keep you depressed. In my study as psychologist I learned that intelligent people are much harder to treat then intellectually untrained people. Basically they say: don’t try to cheer me up, because there cannot exist sound arguments for it. And usually they do have better arguments.
Something else: are you easily hypotized? Just for fun, you might try to visit a reincarnation therapist. My mother is one (thats how I know about them, but i cannot recommend her because she lives in Holland). They hypnotize people and bring them back to past lives, and guide them through the light&the tunnel thing. Safer then a NearDeath Experience and it has been, in some instances, just as life-changing. Your dislike for talking about yourself in RL need not be a problem, you could go in and say: just hypnotize me.