“Labeling is an attempt to prejudice attitudes and as such, it is a censor’s tool.”
- American Library Association
Oohh!! I really like the thought of the .xxx domain. That sounds like a great idea.
As for the prostitution, I still can’t agree with it. I think it should be illegal everywhere. I don’t necesserily beleive the punishment should be more sfiff, just make it illegal all together.
I suppose I was a little presumptuous about the type of pornography my children should see. In a perfect world they wouldn’t see any. They would learn from me, and watching movies and other things that slowly filter into a childs life would help them learn.
I think that porn is just too easy to get ahold of. The internet has done this for us. I think that adults should have free reign over their lives. I wish there was a way to better control it.
No radical bannings of all pornography just things to keep them away from the prying eyes of children. I think that most teenagers have dealt with it. I honestly beleive they should be taught, so they don’t go off experimenting (teen pregnancy all that.) I just think that we should protect the growing minds a little better…
Who knows…
Re: prostitution: 1) if it’s legal to fuck anyone you want any time you (and s/he) want and agree to, for free, then the transfer of money from one to the other should not change the legality of the act. 2) A lot of prostitution goes beyond the conventional male/female acts. This, then, removes it from the alternative to a real relationship, as someone above was suggesting. It’s not only nerds, for example, who want to have sex with two women. It’s not within the realm of most “real relationships” to have someone pee on you, etc. But there are people who will do those things for money. Why not have access to these things?
Re:pornography: I’ve often thought that the plain and simple, out and out sex pictures and movies (i.e. porn) would be a better way for kids to learn about the joys of sex than the snickering, prurient, gratuitous views they get on tv dramas. Sex is great fun, and good porn, which shows people enjoying it, is fine. I wouldn’t outlaw porn just because some is bad. If kids are raised with some decent views of themselves and others, they will learn to discern good from bad, tasteful from distasteful, safe from dangerous, in all realms. Trust them.
Regarding .xxx domains, what on earth makes you think that would stop non-.xxx domains being used for pornography? Who’s going to enforce porn sites only being allowed on .xxx domains?
The US government might be able to block US-based sites, but what about the Czech entrepreneur who’s putting bestiality on his .cz site?
I went through a brief self-righteous phase a few years back of complaining to message board providers like InsideTheWeb about racist or homophobic (the aggressively, pro-violence ones) boards they hosted. I can imagine that GeoCities, Angelfire etc are in the same boat; not wanting to face the music for hosting porn, but not able to manually check every single page and image.
Snuff films – fake or (hopefully not) real.
People have their choices in porn as to what they wish to watch and to be fair, I suppose all choices should be open but I must admit that I kind of have a problem with people who get intensely sexually aroused observing a murder during an act of sex. I think that might lead to some serious problems down the road.
The snuff film is something new, introduced within the last 10 years. There have been fake rape films out for ages and I am aware of people who like to play rape – men and women included. (Judging from what is included in many porn films, it seems obvious that many men like the hard, possession, dominate thing. I.E.: ass spanking or slapping, hair pulling, tying the girl down, and very rough, pile driving sex.) That tends to make me believe that many men and women have the urges to rape or be raped which brings up the question as to whether or not such actions would be carried over into ‘normal’ life.
Now, an average porn viewer with a well established sex life and average mental state would not carry it into normal life, but the unexpected wide spread use of the ‘date rape drug’ caused me pause. Still – and I am not a rape advocate – rape is not as bad a murder.
For ages men and women with violent sex urges have been enjoying bondage and S&M films, which would come close to snuff films but without the killing part. Nothing in porn ever lasts unless there is a market for it and when the snuff films came out it caused me some concern. Admittedly, to the best of my knowledge, they are few and very hard to find and not something that can be ordered from any catalogue I have or on stock at the local video store.
So, I assume the demand is very low. I, actually, have never seen one nor ever had the opportunity to do so.
Currently, we are in the leveling off era of ‘child molestation exaggeration fanaticism’ where anyone even looking oddly at a kid can be suspected of being Chester the Molester in secret. Oddly enough, there have been hundreds if not thousands of fake ‘child’ porn out for years where adult but young looking woman dress up and act like teens, complete with pigtails, baby-doll dresses and smallish breasts, to be screwed by men.
The lowest age of consent that I know of is 14. ‘Kiddy porn’ is made in Sweden with male and female actors of such a low age – though it is not kiddy porn. I know of no porn made involving any children under the age of 14 – at least legal porn in any nation.
Now a question pops up. What about homosexual porn involving 14 year olds? (It has been observed that at 14 and up to roughly 17 or 18, many kids actually can swing both ways under certain circumstances because of both physical and hormonal influences.)
The majority of the porn set apparently has little problem with accepting and enjoying lesbian films, however it has been noted that very few ‘normal’ viewers accept male homosexual films – and that includes lesbian viewers also.
I enjoy porn and feel that all porn should be available, even that which I personally find objectionable. However, there are one or two forms of it which make me wonder if there might be social repercussions down the line. Anything staged or ‘played’ between two consenting adults is fine, as far as I am concerned, so long as it does not over lap into finding unwilling ‘victims’.
I also agree with legalized prostitution for several reasons.
1: A man or woman might not want to have to find someone to go out with, spend a bunch of time and money on just to get laid to scratch an itch. (If a woman goes out and finds a guy to screw for a night – she becomes two things: a hot number which attracts guys like flies to honey and, contradictorily, a ‘slut.’)
2: Many people have partners who don’t want to go to the degrees they like in sex, so they can pay for one who will.
3: A lot of people don’t want lengthy, ‘deep’ relationships but they want sex.
4: Having a selection of people available who are willing, for money, to perform various degrees of safe sex with a person would cut down on the sexual frustration often experienced in today’s restrictive society and might not only improve mental health (the Japanese Geisha is a good example) but might decrease the amount of sexual crimes.
Years ago, in some areas, it was not unusual for a man or a big brother to take his virgin son or little brother to a house of prostitution – a good one – and pay for a good, special girl to carefully introduce the kid into the world of sex and do it properly. It saved a LOT OF FRUSTRATED fumbling and bumbling around with the local girls or paying attention to the often inaccurate kid to kid network of sexual information. (I once had an adult woman ask me, in all seriousness, if the male member had a bone in it. Another woman asked me if oriental women had vagina’s which were ‘side ways’ in comparison to other woman’s.)
Some misconceptions last. Freer sex laws would help a lot.
I am also in favor of not “criminalizing” pornography so far as young people goes. Not that I think Fruit Loops should come with a complemetary Hustler or anything. I just think that by making all pornography and sex taboo until “adulthood” we are fostering some really unhealthy beliefs about sex.
The turning point for me on this issue came a few semesters ago in a Politics in Film class. One guy in the class asked our professor if he could do his paper on porno films. This started a huge debate on porno.
Well, there was this girl in class who was just mortified by the fact that some of the women in class actuall liked porn. See, she honestly thought that “pornography” was only things like beastiality, child molestation, rape, S&M, homosexuality (not that I am equating homosexuality with child molestation or rape, it’s just that she is morally and Biblically opposed to it and therefore, she equated them) etc.
She was genuinely shocked when we gently explained that quite a lot of porn consisted of a man and a woman having consensual sex, often in the missionary position. She could not fathom that this evil empire of pornography that she had been taught to hate and revile consisted of things she would one day engage in with her husband. She actually thought we were lying. My professor even told her it was true but it still took her a couple of days to understand. (I don’t know if she investigated on her own or what.)
BTW, she was 26.
Ok, First off, I’d like to let you all know that my position on this is pretty cut and dry–
Porn doesn’t truly hurt a child’s development unless there’s a pre-disposition towards sexual dysfunction. I viewed both soft and hardcore porn(more soft than hard), starting at the age of about 9 or 10, and I pretty much had the same reaction that was listed in the beginning of this thread…“Ewww…”, and “Giggle, giggle…she looks funny…” kinda stuff(masturbatory practices didn’t begin until several years later, like at 13, oh, and I didn’t lose my virginity until after I was 18). I have no dysfunction that I know of, save a good understanding of sex in our lives, and a nice, laid-back style regarding sex. It’s comfortable for me, and I hope my partner as well.
Now that we have the internet, it has brought a whole new angle to the stuff. I view online porn. It’s pretty much straight-laced stuff. Couples, girl-girl type action. No biggie. If online porn scares you with your kids, I recommend that you purchase a net-appliance rather than a software filter(In reality, I’d prefer it if you monitored your children instead…but we’re all busy).
Sentinel writes:
I beg to differ Senti. If you’ve ever read “Naked Lunch” by William S. Burroughs, you’ll realize that the practice has been around since at least the writing of his manuscript(although I will admit that he was a raving Hype whose reality was messed up…the idea had to come from somewhere, and I doubt he invented it). Come to think of it, in one of these movies, as one police inspector is describing the “Snuff” films, he pretty much says something like what you said above…
There were also several movies in the 70’s and 80’s(let me crunch my braisn, and I’ll try to come up with the titles), that portrayed snuff-films.
As far as prostitution-- As long as there are people to regulate the girls, I see no problem with it. Lack of regulation, and the spread of harmful microbes is what troubles me, Not the moral fiber degradation argument.
Yeesh…that’s definitely enough for now 
LoL, this:
Was supposed to come AFTER the Movie mention…
I have had access to back issues of Playboy and Penthouse since MEMORY (I was born in 1970 and my grandfather had back issues from the 60’s). Stunningly enough, I am not a child molester, murderer, rapist, or anything else. I’ve known I was bisexual since I was 12, though I didn’t kiss a girl until I was 20. I was a virgin until I was almost 18.
However…from 8th grade on I was the person to whom my friends came when they had a question about sexuality. All of my friends…and this is up to and including college…knew that if they asked me an off-the-wall question I would give them a straightforward answer without laughing…questions ranging from “Can a man really take a woman from behind?” to “Why do women like to give blowjobs?”
Was my ability to help answer these questions effected by my exposure to pornography? Undoubtedly. Did looking at the pornography effect my own developing sexuality? Probably not. Should all children have no-holds-barred access to pornography? Probably not. I was an exceptionally precocious child (which counts for nothing once you graduate from high school, but anyhow…) and my mother made it clear that if I had any questions I could ask her. Which led to my nine-year-old self asking, in the middle of Sunday breakfast at Denny’s, “Mommy, what’s a menage a trois?” But she answered me, odd looks from the surrounding tables nonwithstanding.
HOWEVER…I think hiding any and all porn from children does nothing but add to the “forbidden fruit” mystique of sexuality, and we should all know by now that anything forbidden to a child, especially a teenager, becomes insanely appealing. I have two stepsons (who will be 19 this year) and since I have been married to their father (when they were 11) the house rule has been “put the porn back when you’re done.” That’s it. They are two of the most together guys, sexually, that I have ever seen at this age. One of them is still a virgin and is in NO hurry; the other isn’t, but hasn’t made “conquests” either and is in no hurry to nab all of the tail possible either. Did our open attitudes about sexuality matter? I’d like to think they did. I’d like to think that our willingness to discuss any questions they had and not hide the porn as if it were BAD or DIRTY helped contribute to their healthy attitudes. I guess we won’t know for sure until they’re old enough to have an objective opinion about their teenage years.
Wow… debates on porn…
Here in Ontario (Canada), we’re debating whether or not it is moral to advertise birth control pills on TV (on Much Music). The church has its knickers in a knot over it. :rolleyes:
Are we canadjuns behind or what?! 
Elenfair (powered by caffeine and lack-o-sleep)
I beg to differ also. It is the considered opinion of snopes that snuff films are a complete myth.
http://www.snopes.com/movies/other/snuff.htm
Does this mean that there has never ever been a single snuff film made? No. At least there have been a few fakes. But certainly there is no snuff film industry.
Concerning my post with the age of Snuff films appearing: Correction accepted and thanks. I did not know that.
There was rescently a HUGE court battle in Canada when a judge overturned a “possession of child pornography” conviction, because he said the law was unconstitutional.
Of course, the media et al began screaming, thinking that this was paving the way for seven year olds to be photographed doing all sorts of nasty things.
What they forgot to mention, of course, was that the law the judge was talking about was a grossly overbroad law that was passed in a flurry of activity before Mulroney got kicked out.
Under this law, if a sixteen year old describes their first sexual experience in their diary, they are guilty of possessing child pornography. If a fourteen year old has a polaroid of herself kissing her boyfriend at the junior prom, she is guilty of possessing child pornography. If a molester in rehab draws crayon pictures of fictional children engaged in sex acts, in order to relieve his desires and keep him from molesting REAL children, he is guilty, guilty, guilty.
The man who had been convicted had written fictional stories involving sex with minors (no actual minors were violated).
Thank god they are changing that law.
As far as other types of pornography goes; Are all paticipants consenting adults? Yes? Then fine. I’ll keep my nose out of your fantasy.
Prostitution? Legalize it! If a woman can sell her stereo for cash to pay the rent, why not her sexual favours? Also, if we legalized prostitution, then we could take steps to put abusive pimps out of business and reduce “bad tricks”. If prostitution was a vocation, then the majority of women in it would be the women who wanted to be there.
Thought said:
Who came up with these bizarre delineations of what is hardcore and softcore, raunchy and tasteful? (Not picking on you, Thought; it’s most definitely a societal thing.)
Playboy can show a woman’s pubic hair, and it’s allowable. However if her labia, vulva and clitoris are shown, burn those mags in a big pile in the street!
A woman can show 99 percent of her breast, and it’s allowable. Show that last square-inch-and-a-half of nipple, however, and you’re going to jail.
It’s a big Catch-22. Certain images are banned or branded because sectors of our society see them as objectionable. They see them as objectionable because it makes them uncomfortable. It makes them uncomfortable because it’s unfamiliar. It’s unfamiliar because they banned and branded it.
Adults should be able to purchase, view, use, etc. ANYTHING that doesn’t affect other people in an adverse way (and, if it harms the user personally, fine – as long as they pay for the injury/damages themselves).
The obscenity standard-bearers argue that they – and society at large – are affected in an adverse way. I disagree with them. As has been stated earlier in this thread, look at Europe, where sex is more open. If the Puritans here were right, you’d see rampant sex fiends, preying on the innocent at every turn. What you see instead are people that just are pretty comfortable with their sexuality and that of others. There are probably far more sex fiends and violent sexual crimes here precisely because everything is so repressed.
Show of hands – how many guys here who enjoy the occasional pornographic image are looking for the ‘artistic’ and ‘beautiful’?
That’s what I thought.
**tdn-**I did not say there was a “Snuff film industry”. I said that the “Idea” of snuff films/activities has been around the block for quite some time.
Regardless of what snopes says(I know some of you out there SWEAR by the site, but after debunking everything under the sun, I think it would tend to make you a bit jaded).
So, as I’ve not mentioned an industry of snuff films, but only their existence in print, and the mention of them in film, your argument is null.
Oh, and Senti, I did not mean my previous, previous post as a dig, I hope you didn’t take it as such(I know I don’t have to apologize or justify myself, but the way things have been around here, you can’t be too careful :))
This wasn’t readily apparent in your post. And it was clear that other posters may have believed that snuff films were real. I was just trying to clear that up.
As opposed to SD, where lies, untruths, and legends are encouraged? This is pretty insulting. You seem to be suggesting that SDers are enlightened truth seekers, while snopesters are jaded and bitter naysayers. Aren’t we all after the same thing?
If shedding light on a subject is a “null arguement”, then guilty as charged. Sheesh.
tdn whined:
Allright, after re-reading my post, I’m prepared, today, this one time only…to concede this point.
As far as the lies, untruths and legends go, do you have a thread to back that up?
As far as being insulted, puhlease…we’re all for eliminating ignorance, but I think specifically for the issue of snuff films that Snopes is at least a little bit wrong.
If the idea of snuff as a sex act existed in the 60’s(going only off of the appearance in “Naked Lunch”), then why wouldn’t it show up on film? It’s not terribly far-fetched for it to be put to film, is it?
So, let’s stop splitting hairs here, ok? You can be right by Snopes, and I’ll be right by common sense and logic.
In what way? Can you be specific?
No, it’s not. Still, there is no evidence that even one snuff film has been made. If you want to prove me wrong, please do. There’s a million bucks in it for you.
That’s fine by me. Although your “commom sense and logic” seems to be “it’s not physically impossible, therefore it’s highly possible, therefore it has happened.” Or did I misunderstand?
The idea of a nuclear war with Russia has been around since the 50s. It’s not terribly far fetched, is it? Therefore it must have happened.
Logically, you are right. But I’d like to see empirical evidence, and your argument, however logical, is still just speculation.
TDN,
What I wouldn’t give to be some sweaty, horny pervert with a penchant for death+sex right now…
Makes me think back to the movie 8mm…what if I only had those “underground” connections for blackmarket porno?
Relax big guy…I won’t be able to find empirical evidence that it exists, just quotes from people who’ve done the research and swear that it does…
Like this girl…
And also a reputed FBI source who remains unnamed…
These quotes were gotten off of http://videonasty.cjb.net/