In one of the Everest threads, tsunamisurfer said:
Bolding mine.
Please don’t take this personally, tsunamisurfer,as I’m only using you as an example of something I see all the time, but what is up with that?
The white guys are worthy of being mentioned/remembered by name, but the Sherpas fall into the “and a bunch of other guys” category? Why is that? Do most Westerners answer the question, “Who was the first person to climb Everest” with “Sir Edmund Hillary” because his expidition provided the funding?
It bothers me tremendously that the accomplishments of the native people are brushed aside and the praises of the white guys with all the cash are sung to high heaven. Is this the sole fault of the Western media who can afford to send camera crews along and chose to focus only on the white people? I get the impression that even the climbers themselves show some prejudice in this regard. I don’t know any Everest climbers personally so I can only go by quotes I’ve read but there seems to always be comments like, “…and the Sherpas were an invaluable help”. Help? Were they not equal members of the team? Did they not also accomplish the same climb, often carrying heavy packs of equipment for the “tourist” climbers?
In this day and age when we compliment ourselves on our great progress in treating people equally, we still feel free to trapse all over the third world claiming glory for the white man and treating the native peoples as an afterthought.
Is there any defense or pragmatic reason for this?
Yeah, because if white guy hadn’t come along with the money and obsession about climbing the mountain it wouldn’t have got climbed. Probably because the sherpas would have had more productive things to be doing with their time.
Apart from that, it’s no different from just about any discovery in history. Whether you’re white or even the first doesn’t count for anything. You don’t discover a continent on your own, you don’t find the source of a river on your own, you don’t sail around the globe on your own. Yet history will give you a single name of a guy who did it, and it is usually the one in charge who’s working for the one with all the money who employs the writers who write the history books.
Are the names of the two dozen (and some) exceptionally talented high-altitude Sherpas readily avaliable? If they are, then perhaps it would be appropriate to take tsunamisurfer’s post to task for omitting them (after all, at least some effort must have been applied to obtain the list of white guy names).
If not, may I suggest that the issue is a fine one to bring up without citing a particular post at all, but rather a source document of some sort that mentions the white guys by name, but relegates the individual participants of indigenous heritage to the status of “crowd scenery.”
BTW, Futile Gesture, I recently heard a radio interview of Tensing Norgay’s son, Bhutia Tensing (it may have been Fresh Air, but don’t hold me to that), in which he credited the growth of the Everest-climbing industry with bringing new levels of prosperity to the Sherpa community in general. So, having more productive things to do with their time" may be overstating things a bit.
Lucky, could you possibly link to the original thread? I might find it interesting reading.
By the way, I just noticed that it even goes a step further since all the names cited sound anglo-saxon. So, it seems that non anglo-saxons who died climbing the Everest aren’t worth to be known by their name, either.
I think that tsunamisurfer was listing famous mountaineers that had died on Everest. That is, people who he, as a mountaineer, would know of by name. People who were already famous for climbing mountains before dying on Everest, not just people who died on Everest.
I think it’s entirely likely that if you list famous mountaineers, there will be mostly Anglo-Saxon names.
As for the sherpas, they didn’t get listed because they were not well-known. Aside from Tenzing Norgay, no one knows them by name. One of the reasons for this is because they are simply hired help. If a mountaineer gains fame for a series of heroic expeditions, each with different groups of other people, he (or she) will be the only famous one.
Also, it’s really only the leader that anyone cares about remembering. Hell, Magellan was killed in the Phillippenes, and the circumnavigation was completed by others, but it’s Magellan’s name that is associated with the feat. It has nothing to do with race or ethnic background.
I think that proves my point. Until the ‘white guys’ came along with this burning desire to climb everything Everest (AFAWK) was left alone. The Sherpas didn’t climb it because there was no incentive to. No great importance was put on scaling the highest mountain and no-one was going to feed their family pointlessly climbing some barren peak. It was more productive to go about farming, herding, whatever.
It was only with the arrival of Europeans and their obsessions that reaching Everest’s peak became productive to the Sherpas. So if you consider being the first to scale a peak worthy of credit then it’s the ‘white guy’ who should get it as the Sherpas obviously didn’t consider it worth doing.
futile gesture, your point about history only remembering the leader of an expidition is a good one, but I’m not sure it applies to my particular gripe. The people usually listed as those who died on Everest were not the first people to climb it nor, in many cases, were they even remarkable outside of the fact that they died on the mountain. They are remembered because they died on Everest. I think it’s terrible that others who died along side them are relegated to footnotes.
kylasdad99: You asked if the names of sherpas who died were readily avialable. I did a 3 minute web search and found several, though most of the sites follow the pattern of ‘these white guys died and, oh yeah, a bunch of sherpas, too’. The original thread is in GQ, called Surviving Everest, I believe.
waterj2, you said that perhaps the white guys were mentioned because they were famous mountaineers. Here is a clip from library.thinkquest.org/10131/nepal_everst_sherpas.html which lists the accomplishments of 3 sherpas who, I think you will agree, are more than “hired help”.
The site did not list sherpas who died as it was touting accomplishments rather than mourning those who didn’t make it, but it did say that more than 1/3 of the deaths on Everest in the past 70 years have been sherpas. I’ll bet you a dollar than many of those most certainly were accomplished mountaineers.
this is the way it is, and this is the way it’s always gonna be. with money, comes recognition. the white guys had money. not only that, but this is coming from an american or european standpoint. of course the people from your country (or a familiar country) are going to interest you most. not only is this natural, but it can be considered patriotic! i don’t think there is anything wrong with this.
money can buy you fame, even after death.
A great documentary, made by some canadians, but I can’t remember the name was around in 1992. I saw it at the Canadian embassy in Tokyo. Anyway, Tensing Norgay made fun of the fact that these mountain climbers wanted guides to where they the sherpas themselves had never gone.
Also, one of the interviewers, really had a kick recalling when Tensing Norgay was feted in London when he received some major award from the Queen (apologies for not being more specific). That Tensing Norgay was there in his “pigtails” and just a happy guy completely oblivious to what the high class Brits had to think. A sherpa through and through.
At the end of the day, what makes good copy? Usually, it’s some rich white guy that does something “new” although somehow there happens to be a “sherpa” on the roof of the world “documenting” the great conqueror as he climbs up. Who was there first?
“this is the way it is, and this is the way it’s always gonna be”
“not only is this natural, but it can be considered patriotic”
“At the end of the day, what makes good copy?”
So much for ethics. Not only have the sherpas been totally blown off, but nobody gives a shit. I wonder if y’all would feel the same if you were the “hired help” whose accomplshements went unrecognized.
Looks to me that the other sherpas gave a shit. Gave two shits, if you’ll extend the euphamism. What, the sherpas’ feelings aren’t good enough? Are you slighting their concern a unimportant because we don’t care? Is our recognition necessary for them?
No, I’m saying I find it selfish and ego-centric that we don’t recognize their accomplishments. I’m saying that arguments such as, “well, everybody always cares more about ‘their own’” leave me saddened at the state of humanity. I’m saying that it is inherently racist and elitest to take the time to remember, by name, those of one race for thier noteworthy deed while completely ignoring those of another race/class who did the exact same thing.
Of course not. But I think much more highly of the sherpa people who remember and honor both their own and the foreigners who died on thier mountian than I do of Westerners who bemoan the loss of their own and ignore the losses of the native people who were their hosts.
Isn’t it possible that this is all in the context of who it is written for? I would guess that the sherpa say something along the lines of “This person, that person and the other all died on Everest. Oh yeah, and some silly white folk, too.”
Also, I don’t see it as very racist, as putting a single name into events like this is common. Can you name the 9 people that died with Aaliya? I can’t. I sure knew that SHE died, though. I don’t think it’s racism that we don’t know the other people’s names, I think it’s that Aaliya’s name was already known, as the names provided by tsunamisurfer seemed to be known before they had died on Everest.
Thinking further, something even closer to home. Can you name the offensive linemen of your local football team? You can probably name the quarterback, though. The poor OL are being slighted!
Not in my experience. The sherpas, and the Nepali people in general, remember everybody.
I disagree. If those names were known at all, it was in climbing circles. Why would the names of great Nepali mountaineers also not be known in those circles? After all, one of the white guys on tsunamisrfer’s list was the cameraman (Mick Burke), and I don’t see anyone referring to him as “hired help”.
Actually, I can’t name the QB, either. Sorry–not a football fan. But, if a team died in a horrible trajedy, people probably wouldn’t remember the waterboy, but they’d remember the key players. My point here is that the sherpas were key players and still they’re treated like the waterboy.
erislover, have you read anything I’ve said about the sherpas being more than just part of the team? About them being equal in skill to the white climbers? Do you disagree? If so, on what basis?
I agree with you completely, Lucky (my nickname too), but the reference doesn’t surprise me. Like someone said, they’re the ones that made the event happen. Should Tensing have travelled to Hillary’s home and enlisted him to climb the local pinnacle, he’d likely be named first in the reports.
Also, consider the fact that publications ARE aware of who their target audience is. They know that if their readership can relate to the subject of the story, if their readership has something in common with them, it’ll hold their interest much better.
Congrats to you for your sense of fair play though. It’s admirable.