Three things pissing me off right now

[Eonwe]

1. We should do what I want, because it just so happens that it’s also what our Founding Fathers intended.

If I hear the words “Founding Fathers” one more time I am going to scream. I’ll grant that the US constitution has provided for a pretty spectacular and stable system of government (well, for 200+ years and running; we’ll see if we can give Rome a run for its money), but arguing that a position is somehow what the FFs “wanted” or “intended” is always a misguided appeal to authority where a) that authority can’t actually speak his thoughts, so you get to conveniently ascribe your own perspective to said dead guy, and b) that now-dead authority’s opinions and philosophies were developed in and designed for a dramatically different world. Thomas Jefferson knew nothing about modern warfare, the internet, massive wealth, or Jersey Shore. Why his opinions should serve as a trump card on any and all topics because he’s a Founding Father is anybody’s guess.

2. I’m all for Egypt! Join my facebook group and support the protesters by being part of a virtual protest :rolleyes:!

So, what’s happening in Egypt is in many ways momentous, and certainly newsworthy. However, all of a sudden people who didn’t give two shits about Egypt, or know anything at all about it except that it’s the place where the pyramids are and they’re an ally of the West, are getting all political and dramatic. No one (for the most part) cared one whit about Egypt three weeks ago. Now, because there’s a protest for Democracy (hallowed be thy name), everyone and his mother is spouting evil words such as “dictator,” “totalitarian regime,” and “tyrant” like they’re going out of style. I challenge any of the millions of Americans who jumped on this protest bandwagon (no, I’m really supporting, since I liked it on facebook, and I totally digged that slide-show of pictures from Cairo) to name one thing about Mubarak’s rule in Egypt that was “evil” other than “it’s a police state,” or “he’s a dictator!”

Rah rah the people! Rah rah Democracy!

I’m not saying that the protesters are wrong. It’s just that the jingoistic, blind, and passionate support of the event by millions who don’t know a thing about it is disgusting. Not that it’s any different than what goes on here every election cycle.

3. Obamacare.

Stop using this word. Just stop. Every time you utter it you’re selling out one more little piece of your integrity and honesty to a campaign based on nothing more than a political power struggle, and you spit on the people you pretend to serve. Even if you believe in your position sincerely, the ends don’t justify the means for this kind of political discourse.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

I’ve started using Obamacare, and I supported the HCR process and I support the bill as passed. It’s here. It’s handy. Get used to it.

[Ravenman]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

I’ve started using Obamacare, and I supported the HCR process and I support the bill as passed. It’s here. It’s handy. Get used to it.

I agree. Reform of the health care system probably isn’t going to be done in one fell swoop, but it is a beginning. Someday we will have a much better health care system than we do today, and Obamacare could be a great tribute, not an insult, to a huge improvement in the lives of everyday Americans.

[The_Jay]

Yeah I’m a fan of Mubarak also!

…asshole.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Eonwe

1. We should do what I want, because it just so happens that it’s also what our Founding Fathers intended.

If I hear the words “Founding Fathers” one more time I am going to scream. I’ll grant that the US constitution has provided for a pretty spectacular and stable system of government (well, for 200+ years and running; we’ll see if we can give Rome a run for its money), but arguing that a position is somehow what the FFs “wanted” or “intended” is always a misguided appeal to authority where a) that authority can’t actually speak his thoughts, so you get to conveniently ascribe your own perspective to said dead guy, and b) that now-dead authority’s opinions and philosophies were developed in and designed for a dramatically different world. Thomas Jefferson knew nothing about modern warfare, the internet, massive wealth, or Jersey Shore. Why his opinions should serve as a trump card on any and all topics because he’s a Founding Father is anybody’s guess.

The founding fathers at the very least acquiesced to slavery. Oh, but that was a different time, you can’t judge their position back then by today’s standards.

The founding fathers did not want a standing army. Oh, but that was a different time, America was not the world’s superpower.

But putting monied interests before the interests of the people and the right to bear arms are timeless principles, enshrined by the founding fathers.

2. I’m all for Egypt! Join my facebook group and support the protesters by being part of a virtual protest :rolleyes:!

So, what’s happening in Egypt is in many ways momentous, and certainly newsworthy. However, all of a sudden people who didn’t give two shits about Egypt, or know anything at all about it except that it’s the place where the pyramids are and they’re an ally of the West, are getting all political and dramatic. No one (for the most part) cared one whit about Egypt three weeks ago. Now, because there’s a protest for Democracy (hallowed be thy name), everyone and his mother is spouting evil words such as “dictator,” “totalitarian regime,” and “tyrant” like they’re going out of style. I challenge any of the millions of Americans who jumped on this protest bandwagon (no, I’m really supporting, since I liked it on facebook, and I totally digged that slide-show of pictures from Cairo) to name one thing about Mubarak’s rule in Egypt that was “evil” other than “it’s a police state,” or “he’s a dictator!”

Rah rah the people! Rah rah Democracy!

I’m not saying that the protesters are wrong. It’s just that the jingoistic, blind, and passionate support of the event by millions who don’t know a thing about it is disgusting. Not that it’s any different than what goes on here every election cycle.

I bet a lot of people didn’t know very much about a lot of things until they became front page news. Its just what happens. People are forming their opinion based on what they read in the papers, and if we are going to have a kneejerk reaction to anything it, supporting a democratic movement against a dictator that has held onto power for 35 years by suspending the Egyptian constitution under emergency power seems like a good one to have.

3. Obamacare.

Stop using this word. Just stop. Every time you utter it you’re selling out one more little piece of your integrity and honesty to a campaign based on nothing more than a political power struggle, and you spit on the people you pretend to serve. Even if you believe in your position sincerely, the ends don’t justify the means for this kind of political discourse.

I hear what youa re saying. It is an attemtp to link the two in ways that only hurt. It reminds anyone that supports health care reform that Obama compromise4d and got nothing in return. It reminds those that dont’ support healthc are reform that Obama is a socialist that want the government to take over our entire economy.

[Labrador_Deceiver]

While I agree with the gist of your post, where did you get the idea that Thomas Jefferson knew nothing about massive wealth?

[The_Tao_s_Revenge]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

I’ve started using Obamacare, and I supported the HCR process and I support the bill as passed. It’s here. It’s handy. Get used to it.

I’ve grown to like the term as well. It’s better than what we had before and it’s a first step to something much better that people will be glad of. If the right wants to associate it with someone they actively fight against, go ahead and let them trash their street rep.

[overlyverbose]

I, too, loathe the term “Obamacare.” I would prefer to see it obliterated from the face of the earth.

But I like it better than I like the “Job-Killing Healthcare Law.”

[Drunky_Smurf]

I teach Constitutional Law for a living and the Founding Fathers would totally be against giving Obamacare to Egypt.

[phouka]

@Labrador_Deceiver

While I agree with the gist of your post, where did you get the idea that Thomas Jefferson knew nothing about massive wealth?

There’s a difference between the kind of “massive wealth” Thomas Jefferson was familiar with, and occasionally enjoyed, during his lifetime and the “massive wealth” that exists now. Jefferson’s wealth may have been great, but it couldn’t withstand his own faults as a financial administrator. The wealth that exists now is enough to buy and sell nations and is often concentrated in the hands of one corporation and a few rich-beyond-the-ken-of-human-understanding individuals.

[kidchameleon]

@phouka

There’s a difference between the kind of “massive wealth” Thomas Jefferson was familiar with, and occasionally enjoyed, during his lifetime and the “massive wealth” that exists now. Jefferson’s wealth may have been great, but it couldn’t withstand his own faults as a financial administrator. The wealth that exists now is enough to buy and sell nations and is often concentrated in the hands of one corporation and a few rich-beyond-the-ken-of-human-understanding individuals.

God, if that continues we could end up where humanity has never been: a few people (or even a single person) controlling the wealth and government of an entire nation.

[Labrador_Deceiver]

@phouka

There’s a difference between the kind of “massive wealth” Thomas Jefferson was familiar with, and occasionally enjoyed, during his lifetime and the “massive wealth” that exists now. Jefferson’s wealth may have been great, but it couldn’t withstand his own faults as a financial administrator. The wealth that exists now is enough to buy and sell nations and is often concentrated in the hands of one corporation and a few rich-beyond-the-ken-of-human-understanding individuals.

I’m not sure that there weren’t families alive in Jefferson’s time that had money comparable to the net worth of present day multi-national corporations. I’m pretty sure that the wealthy folks of his day were much wealthier than those of the 21st century, at least.

[Kobal2]

@phouka

There’s a difference between the kind of “massive wealth” Thomas Jefferson was familiar with, and occasionally enjoyed, during his lifetime and the “massive wealth” that exists now. Jefferson’s wealth may have been great, but it couldn’t withstand his own faults as a financial administrator. The wealth that exists now is enough to buy and sell nations and is often concentrated in the hands of one corporation and a few rich-beyond-the-ken-of-human-understanding individuals.

Or in the words of Chris Rock, “I’m not talking about rich, I’m talking about wealthy. Shaq is rich. The guy who signs his paycheck is fucking wealthy, OK ?”. Thomas Jefferson had a house in the country. Richard Branson has a space program.

[Freddy_the_Pig]

Stephen Girard, the richest man in America in Jefferson’s day, had a net worth larger in relation to the American economy than Bill Gates. He was so rich that, instead of going to the government for a bailout, the government came to him for a bail-out (during the War of 1812).

[Buck_Godot]

The problem I have with Obamacare, is that it makes it sound like this was just Obama’s wacky idea that health care should be reformed rather than a very old movement to correct a very big problem. So that rather than thinking about health care reform as a serious issue people can just dismiss it as a special interest peculiar to the Socialist Obama.

[Labrador_Deceiver]

@Kobal2

Or in the words of Chris Rock, “I’m not talking about rich, I’m talking about wealthy. Shaq is rich. The guy who signs his paycheck is fucking wealthy, OK ?”. Thomas Jefferson had a house in the country. Richard Branson has a space program.

You misunderstand. I’m not saying Jefferson was that kind of wealthy. I’m saying that other people of his era were wealthier than Branson is today.

[Cheesesteak]

@Freddy_the_Pig

Stephen Girard, the richest man in America in Jefferson’s day, had a net worth larger in relation to the American economy than Bill Gates.

So, Bill Gates has a net worth that is a slightly smaller percentage of an economy that is vastly larger than the economy in Girard’s time.

Measured in equivalent average people of their time, Girard had a net worth of 0.67% of the wealth created by 2.5 million people, or 16,750 people. Gates is .58% of 300 million people, or 1,740,000.

By my count, that makes Girard 1% as wealthy as Bill Gates.

[Labrador_Deceiver]

@Cheesesteak

So, Bill Gates has a net worth that is a slightly smaller percentage of an economy that is vastly larger than the economy in Girard’s time.

Measured in equivalent average people of their time, Girard had a net worth of 0.67% of the wealth created by 2.5 million people, or 16,750 people. Gates is .58% of 300 million people, or 1,740,000.

By my count, that makes Girard 1% as wealthy as Bill Gates.

This is ridiculous. The whole point was whether or not Jefferson could comprehend of the kind of wealth that individuals or corporations have today. He clearly could.

ETA: All he had to do was look to Europe.

[Dallas_Jones]

@Eonwe

3. Obamacare.

Stop using this word. Just stop. Every time you utter it you’re selling out one more little piece of your integrity and honesty to a campaign based on nothing more than a political power struggle, and you spit on the people you pretend to serve. Even if you believe in your position sincerely, the ends don’t justify the means for this kind of political discourse.

All media, the right, left, middle of the road if there is such a thing anymore, all have adopted this word as shorthand for the Health Care Reform Act of Boring Naming Conventions, or whatever the hell the real name of the legislative proposal is. If there was a political power struggle for this word that war was lost long ago.

Quote us the actual name that you would prefer to see instead and see if anyone is going to repeat it each time they want to discuss the subject. Obamacare is short and everyone knows what we are talking about. It isn’t a derogatory term aimed at the President.

It’s a fact of life, deal with it. Cry into a Kleenex, or whatever you decide to call that Wipe Your Nose With a Paper Cloth thing.

[Fuzzy_Dunlop]

@Dallas_Jones

All media, the right, left, middle of the road if there is such a thing anymore, all have adopted this word as shorthand for the Health Care Reform Act of Boring Naming Conventions, or whatever the hell the real name of the legislative proposal is. If there was a political power struggle for this word that war was lost long ago.

That’s completely untrue. Most responsible journalists called it “healthcare reform”. And it isn’t a legislative proposal, it’s been a fully passed and signed law for nearly a year. The only people “proposing” anything now are the idiots holding repeal votes that have absolutely no chance of ever going anywhere.