Tibetan Buddhism and sex/abuse

Factual Questions
21

You’re missing the key point here. You don’t have to be a member of any of these personality cults in order to be a Hindu. In fact, the vast majority of Hindus don’t belong to a personality cult. The majority of Hindus view any particular philosophy–including charismatic cults–as merely one of many options that a Hindu may or may not give any thought to. Hindus feel free to pick and choose among religious ideas and except for the particular individuals who have signed up to be followers of a particular leader, no Hindu feels obligated to accept any particular cult leader’s programme wholesale. Identity as a Hindu and definitions of Hinduism do not depend on any cult leader’s beliefs of proclamations. So far as their gurus that “ask for great control” over their followers, they achieve such control only to the extent that their followers acquiesce.

Thus, if a particular guru is sexually (or otherwise) abusing followers, it is a matter of asking what that particular guru has done and how he has done it. It doesn’t have anything to do with the nature of Hinduism, Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism, or Tantrism as a whole.

22

I didn’t say people HAVE to be part of these relationships with gurus, I just said that it is there.

23

I don’t disagree with the contents of your posts but you’re missing a semantic nuance. Tibetan Buddhism is Tantric Buddhism. “Tantric Buddhism” is synonymous with “Vajrayana”, the Diamon Vehicle.

Read a bit more about Vajrayana and Tantra.

Sacred texts specific to the Vajrayana schools are called Tantra, hence TB is Tantric because it is based on the teachings contained in those Tantras.

24

I’m joining this debate a bit late, but…better late than never, hopefully.

The original question, as I understood it, was whether sexual abuse of Western Buddhist students is common/rampant in Tibetan Buddhism. Whether or not we term this “tantric” or not is a bit beside the point of the writer’s concern, I think. The answer to her question is: yes. I’ve never met a lama, if only to say “hello” when introduced, who didn’t come on to me. There are reports all over the internet by women who say the same. One woman I’ve been corresponding with said lamas at the center she started even came on to her 11-year old daughter, and a monk asked to marry the 11-year old! According to estimates by some people who have interviewed dharma students extensively, 98% of monks, lamas are non-celibate. So many have been reported to have secret consorts, or just plain old-fashioned affairs. Most of this activity isn’t “tantric sex”, it’s just plain, ordinary sexual exploitation.

According to the former mayor of Lhasa, who was raised and educated with HHDL, and gave two interviews in a book on the wisdom of Tibetan elders, monks in the monastery routinely jump the monastery walls at night to be with women waiting on the other side, or they use each other for sex/masturbation. Doesn’t sound like celibacy to me. The fact seems to be that they just don’t take their vows seriously. This same informant said it’s not unusual for lamas who go into private homes for the purpose of giving blessings to fall in love with the householder’s daughter and insist that they must marry the daughter to further their practice. The same informant, by the way, came on to me and appeared to take it for granted that he could get what he wanted. He seemed to be accustomed to having very young women, this was my clear impression.

Grainne Uile reports that she has knows several lamas who were generous and kind and sincere. I’d seriously like to know who they were (names, please?). I’ve never seen a lama who practiced loving-kindness, so I’ve never gotten very involved in the religion, outside of my own reading/studies and occasional participation in ceremonies or formal classes. I’ve seen a number of lamas who were rude or hostile to women in the sangha and tried to pass it off as a “teaching”, others report lamas who were physically violent towards women, verbally abusive to nuns, etc. This is such a turn-off. I’d love to study with someone who actually practices what he preaches and takes his vows seriously. I’ve heard such lamas exist, but never seen one.

Someone made a reference to the head of the Sakya lineage. If you’re still following this thread, could you clarify which lineage head you mean? Sakya Trizin (who routinely forces himself on his students) or the head of the Sakya Monastery in Seattle (who according to my observation, runs a clean show)?

Let’s not whitewash this scandalous state of affairs. The religion is about sex; the compassion and loving-kindness bit is just a front to make it acceptable to Westerners. This is the unavoidable conclusion many women dharma students have reached.

25

Pretty much throughout history, people in power have used that power to get sex. Religious leaders are not exempt form the appetites that cause so many sex scandals among politicians, athletes, business executives, etc. I think you could find questionable sexual activity among the higher-ups of any religion.

Abusive sexual practices are not a doctrinal part of Tibetan Buddhism. That said, it is worth noting that Tibet was recently a feudal society, which does indeed concentrate power in ways that make sexual abuse more common.

One thing to look out for is that there is a ton of propaganda coming out of China along the lines of “Look how great the Chinese were for lifting the Tibetans out of barbarism.” I would take anything about the evils of Tibetan Buddhism or traditional Tibetan practices coming out of China with a grain of salt. There may be some truth in it, but there is also a lot of exaggeration or creative re-framing…for example I’ve seen traditional Tibetan Polyandry, a practice where women may marry several brother which serves the practical purpose of keeping farm plots from being divided up, described as “Women get raped repeatedly by the entire clan.”

26

I’m not talking about any info from China, just about my own experience and observations, and those of other Western women dharma students.

There seem to be contradictions in Tibetan Buddhist texts re: abusive sexual practices. In one text it says that girls “still under the care of their parents” are “unsuitable” partners. But in the Kalachakra and Hevajra Tantras, among others, the use of 10-, 12-, 15- and 19-year old girls is required for the sexual ceremonies. These girls are told they are to receive a “blessing” from the lama, then they get raped repeatedly throughout the ceremony. The texts further specify that if the “partner” is unwilling, to administer alcohol, and if that doesn’t work, to simply take the girls by force. That is abuse. Not to mention the pregnencies that result. This would be illegal in Western countries, so I assume that the Sakyas in Seattle, WA have abandoned practicing the Hevajra Tantra, but as far as I know, the Sakyas in India still do.

27

Misstyk, what general location was your experience at? My travels in Tibet in the 1980’s never exposed me to what you’re describing. Of course, I’m a guy but the women I traveled with or ran across did not have your experience either of Lama’s and Rinpoche’s trying to bird dog you. I did hear about the odd teenage monk being forward. I spent quite a few nights in quite a few monastaries together with monks and never saw evidence of sexual conduct. You’d think that spending a week out in the nomad lands with a group of 20 year old ish monks, in the same tent, that I’d probably notice if they were making a daisy chain very night. So, to be clear, I’m not saying you’re mistaken, but I’d like to hear more context.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was known as the “drunk lama” by the international buddhists that I came across (for example a Tibetan that was the head of the Tibetan Children’s Home in Taiwan called him that). Chogyam Trungpa was dogged by scandals in IIRC the UK and then Vermont before settling in Boulder. This part is hearsay but from people who were involved with the Nirana institute, that claimed Chogyam had a team of body guards 24/7. That he was quite the sex hound, as in wanted a lot of quantity of partners and a lot of frequency. BTW, AIDS completely ravaged the Tibetan Buddhist community in Boulder and IIRC Chogyam’s successor died of complications from AIDS. Chogyam Trungpa clearly had his demons or karma or whatever, but I don’t think he was normal.

As far as I understand, the Tantric Buddhist techniques that include sexual contact does not end in male ejaculation. Other explanations of it say that the practicioner does ejaculate but then retracks the semen? I’m not exactly clear on what that would entail. However, all the accounts I’ve read in the past is that this is not a sexual gratification act.

28

That should read the Naropa Institute in Boulder (not Nirana)

29

Thanks for sharing your experience/observations in Tibet, China Guy. A lot has changed in Tibet since the Chinese. They don’t allow anyone under a certain age in the monasteries any more–everyone has to go to high school first. And according to Westerners who were in Tibet after the Chinese took over, most of the monks in their 20’s and younger left; few wanted to be there in the first place, and they were being held against their will. So maybe this “custom”, as Tashi Tsering refered to it in his book, “The Struggle For Modern Tibet”, was forgotten. I don’t know. For a report on the situation in India and Nepal, Google “Tibetan Buddhism, child abuse” and see what comes up. The article by Lama Shri has the most information.

My experience has been here in the U.S. with visiting lamas from India and Nepal. re: tantric sex, HHDL was asked how many true tantric masters there really are, and he said “As far as I know, zero”, implying that something other than tantric practice is going on in these cases. He has also told Western dharma practitioners to take cases of abuse to the media and, if necessary, to the police. There have been lawsuits filed in the US against at least a couple of lamas due to this problem.

June Campbell, in her book, “Traveller In Space”, said that according to her experience being coerced into a sexual relationship with the famed Kalu Rinpoche, it’s just ordinary run-of-the-mill sex going on, under the guise of tantric practice. Other women report the same. Some women report outright rape, mostly in India but a few cases in the US as well. One woman reports that a Butanese monk tried to rape her AT BODHGAYA! She escaped by punching him in the face and running. A German group has interviewed women dharma practitioners there, and is preparing to set up a website to air these grievances.

30

The Pali Canon’s Five Precepts, as understood by Theravada Buddhists, include a precept forbidding sexual misconduct:

31

[quote=“Misstyk, post:29, topic:245710”]

Thanks for sharing your experience/observations in Tibet, China Guy. A lot has changed in Tibet since the Chinese. They don’t allow anyone under a certain age in the monasteries any more–everyone has to go to high school first.
[/QUOTE=Misstyk;12991059]
This is absolutely incorrect. Or at least when I was backpacking around parts of Kham and Amdo, the monastaries were full of kids. It was the only place for an education. I hung out with a lot of young monks. I have lots of photos to prove it. Happy to share some

That said, in the 1980’s, there was a huge gap. Elderly monks, no middle aged monks and then maybe 20 something at the eldest. Definately true in say Gyalthang aka Shangrila. When I revisited there in 2007, I met many monks who had been teenagers when I took a portrait of the entire monastary who were still there but aged 20+ years. There were lots of pre high school kids in the monastary in 2007. Admittedly, that’s ancedotal from one monastary.

There’s plenty to criticize China with regarding Tibet, so I’m quite pendantic on fighting ignorance on the subject. And I’m pretty well aware of what happend from 1950 onwards.

32

I had the impression that Tibeten Buddhism was sort of a third branch distinct from both Mahayaha and Theravada. Anyway.

In any case, it reminds me of a firsthand story told by an expat on another message board, about when he was an earnest young Asian Studies scholar taking his big trip through China and Tibet, having read and written many theses about the ins and out of various Precepts and Sutras and lectures and whatever.

Upon his long awaited arrival in Tibet, he was thrilled to have the opportunity to stay the night at an authentic Tibetan monestary.

And that very first evening, the monks were equally thrilled to invite him out back to join in their nightly circle jerk. “It’s OK, there aren’t any women here!”

33

that is true and so the statement referred to didn’t mean a lot.

34

Not saying that didn’t happen but I never experienced anything like that when stgaying in dozens of monastaries. I never had husbands offering up their spouse to a guest, nor any offers of partner swapping when I travelled with an Australian woman. All of theese things others have ckaimed. I’m just saying it wasn’t my experience.

One of the big differences of tibetan buddhism is that it incorporated or assimilated a lot of the indigeneous Bon religion. Bon has altered but still exists in more outlying areas such as what is now northern sichuan. and it exists side by side with tibetan buddhuist monastaries.

35

It’s worth noting that if you go into a modern Catholic high boarding school you’ll hear just about the same thing- they’d rather be anywhere else, and spend most of their time dodging the creepy teacher and looking for places to beat off without getting caught. Tibetan monasteries were culturally educational institutions, serving approximately the same role as public schools today. It’s not surprising to find them full of moody horny kids who’d rather be running around outside.

Pre-Chinese Tibet was not a bit kumbaya heaven, but it also wasn’t the hell that China is politically motivated to paint it as. It was like most poor areas- full a mix of ignorance and injustice and vibrant culture

36

By way of illustration of this, the late Jeanne Robinson, former modern dance performer and choreographer, and co-author with her husband SF writer Spider Robinson of the Stardance trilogy, was a fully ‘ordained’ Soto Zen monk while still married to, and presumably having sex with, her husband.

37

China Guy: thanks for enlightening me as to the difference between propaganda and reality in China/Tibet. Maybe in areas where the Chinese haven’t set up schools, they allow the monasteries to fill that role. I don’t know if the situation is different in Lhasa, do you? They should get busy building schools in outlying areas so that the boys aren’t at risk of abuse.

“Education” is a relative term with regard to Tibetan monasteries. What passed for an education in “old Tibet” was nothing more than caligraphy and a bit of math. Most monks didn’t even learn Buddhist theory; they spent their time memorizing prayers and texts, the meaning of which they knew nothing. From what I read, only the most promising 10% of monks were taught theory. The same is still true in India and Nepal. In recent years, HHDL has introduced a broader curriculum in some monasteries (science, geography), but some monasteries have resisted even such modest reforms. I don’t know the situation in Tibet; have the Chinese introduced a more comprehensive curriculum in those areas where there are no public schools? This would be a good research topic. I know a Tibetan who went through the monastic system in India and left at about age 26, and it’s very sad; he got very little education at all. Compared to the other Tibetans, he can’t carry on a conversation about anything but the most mundane subjects. It’s also clear that his psyche has been messed with; he’s a bit maladjusted and can’t even get along with the other Tibetans. At least he did get English, though his is fairly elementary.

RE: comparison with Catholic boarding schools; at least in boarding school, you graduate at 18. In the monasteries today (in India and Nepal), you can’t leave until you’re 21. In the old Tibet, a Western journalist reports that many were held for life, especially if they came from poor/low caste families. They functioned as servants to the highter monks and lamas. Again, this “tradition” continues today in exile, according to numerous reports.

38

China Guy: I’m not sure what your comment about the influence of Bon on Tibetan Buddhism refers to, especially following a discussion of monks’ nightly activities. Could you clarify, please?

Clearly, there are outside influences on Tibetan Buddhism. Most scholars agree that tantra came from India, though even this is debated. But I think it’s pretty clear that the ritual rape of underage girls in the Tantric ceremonies comes from Hinduism and/or pre-Hindu goddess and virgin worship. It sure isn’t anything the Buddha taught!! (Although according to Miranda Shaw, the Indian tantric rituals originally had a completely different basis, and weren’t abusive; they were controled by women.) Maybe if it were possible to boil Vajrayana down to a more purely Buddhist base, many of these abuses would disappear. But…then it probably wouldn’t be Vajrayana anymore.

Here’s an interesting quote I’ll toss out for consideration, from R.M. Davidson, in “Indian Esoteric Buddhism”;

“It should be emphasized that the scriptures and rituals of institutional esotericism were supported, performed, interpreted, and transmitted by Buddhist monks. […] If the sources of many ritual systems were external to the monastic institutions, it is also obvious that monastic techniques were employed to make the aggregate of the statements palatable. The scriptures are frequently framed or introduced with specifically elite monastic philosopical materials” […] Yet, despite their continued proclamation of ethical purity and condemnation of lapses of morality within the community, monks also became increasingly attracted by the structures of Indian medieval life. The texts themselves introduce to monks the themes of power, personality, eroticism, violence in defense of the Dharma, spells and the mythology of absolute supremacy."

Power, personality, eroticism, violence, spells, absolute supremacy (see Kalachakra Tantra and Shambala myth for the supremacy bit): sounds a lot like the downside of Tibetan Buddhism, the monastic power structure, the lamas’ cult of personality some of them have going on, etc. And it came from India.

I think a lot of the abuses Western Dharma students are experiencing come simply from abuse of power. As Ascenray pointed out, in theory, none of this should be going on, no one is required to follow anyone or do anything they don’t want to do. And yet, “stuff happens”, and it’s happening a lot. Big difference between theory and reality.

39

How do they learn that reverse ejaculation technique?

40

Ralph: you can find instructions by exploring the internet. You can google “Tantric Sex”, you can also google “Taoist sexual alchemy” (a set of DVDs is available for purchase), you can google, “Vajroli method”, which refers to retaining the semen at orgasm, and sending it back up the canal. It takes years of yogic practice to learn to control the muscles involved, breathing exercises are involved, some commentators have said it’s not worth the trouble. Others disagree; they say the bliss you can experience makes it worth it. But it’s hardly a simple parlor trick, so to speak; it’s very difficult and takes a lot of work practicing speciific exercises, meditation, etc.